Christianity

[Jugular]

Pretty much every person I know, knows the story of Jesus Christ. Only some of them believe it to be 100% true. If you don't know the story of Jesus start with this link: http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/lifescan/

Anyway, its pretty fucked up, yet beautiful at the same time. What are your thoughts on Jesus and his story? What evidence do we have to support the whole thing? Were the disciples a bunch of dopes? Is the Bible true?

That brings up another thing. Some parts in the Bible are a load of crap. Adam and Eve? WTF?!

I realize some of it is scientifically unexplanatory, and thats the beauty of it- but saying we have evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate an apple? I think thats just an overacive imagination.

[Unforgiven]

Most of the bible doesn't make sense.

Like the book of Revelations. Makes no sense, but the second half is kinda interesting to read.:happysad:

[Boycott]

I think the best way I've heard it put, is that the bible is merely a book of virtues...

[Jugular]

I think the best way I've heard it put, is that the bible is merely a book of virtues...

Yeah, I've heard that too- that it's just life lessons, etc.

But if it is, then why would it have Jesus in it leading people to think that he is real? The lesson from Jesus's story was selflessness, faith, so on.

[Unforgiven]

So does my family.:happysad:

I believe some of it happened. But, for the most part, just a set of rules and guidelines.

[junglizm]

The Bible is a good work of fiction, albeit fiction based on a limited amount of actual events, but beyond that it's all myth and dogma.

For instance, I don't doubt that there was a guy named Jesus alive at the time, and his role as a religious teacher is probably accurate, as are the different sects, tribes and cities that are outlined in the Bible. However, the rest of the book is nothing more than rhetoric. The stories contained in the Bible are simply meant to be used as parables – a tool for teaching religion to simpler people, via easy to understand stories.

Anyone who believes the bible to be 100% true is a complete idiot. Even most Christian fundamentalists acknowledge the presence of parables in the Bible.

[Jugular]

Point taken. What about God and heaven? I don't think anyone says those are just parables/crap like that.

[Hater808]

Point taken. What about God and heaven? I don't think anyone says those are just parables/crap like that.


I think people say that's just made up. My own beliefs aside, I can see both sides of the argument. People, who believe, need faith into the stories and the books to believe it. Those who don't, have more than perfectly good reason not to believe any of it to be true. As it is with any religion, hear it with a clear unbiased head and it sound like a load of shit. Then people’s opinions are formed from their beliefs, faith, social conditioning, life experiences, and many other personal influences. So seeing as how everyone took a bit of a different shit pie, it pointless to argue over whose tasted better/worse. Also, arguing the trurth of religion will never work because you are arguing heresay, interpretations if that, of what occured hundreds of years ago. Then send that through countless language translations. The moral here is take what you can get from it.

[BadEvilWrong]

Good reading on the Jesus myth here: http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm (linkage)

Pay close attention to the second page, especially to the "Non Biblical Sources" section.

[Woodreaux]

My armchair historian idea of Jesus is as follows:
I think the Hebrews were tired of being subjected by foreign powers (e.g.: Epyptians, Romans). They as Moses lead them to throw off the Egyptian yoke, I think they were hoping Jesus could rid them of the Romans. There is a gap in the gospel's account of his life, during his formative years. I believe during his teens and early twenty's he was either in Persia, India or maybe even China training with the Shaolin monks. There he learned fighting styles, Eastern Philosphy and Oriental Medicine among other things. Sometime around his late twenties or early thirties, he returned to Nazareth and started kicking Roman ass and raising an army for a rebellion. The apostles were most likely Jesus's greatest warriors. The miracles were exagerated accounts of Jesus using his advanced medical knowledge.
For several years, Jesus and his guerilla army went on a rampage around Jerusalem and the surrounding provences, preparing for open rebellion. Unfortunately for Jesus, the Romans were a very devious adversary. They planted the traitor Judas who sold Jesus out. They Caesar sent an entire legion to crush the insurrection. Jesus was captured, given a mock trial and executed. Because Jesus didn't succeed in becoming their messiah, most the Hebrews stayed with Judiasm as their religion.
The biblical account is much different. But then again, the bible is largely a product of Rome. (They call it the Roman Catholic Church for a reason). For many people unhappy with the Roman Empire, Jesus's revolt became a symbol of hope for one day they could be free of the Romans. Political dissidence now had a name: Christianity. The Romans didn't like this, so they fed these disenfranchised people to the lions. But as with other revolts, martyrs only fed the fire. The Roman Senate and Caesar weren't stupid, over time they hatched a plan to subvert the movement. They began by editting Jesus's biography. They replaced his defiant demonstrations with messages of conformity to their values. They substituted his speeches about patriotism with uncomprehensible random prose. And finally, they shifted the blame for his death to local Hebrew puppet government. In doing so, all the anti-Roman themes were replaced with values friendly to their way of life. So, within a couple of centuries of his death, they turned their ancient enemy into their own state religion. That's why the religion named after him took off on a continent he had never been to, whereas it had much less appeal in the place he was born and died.
How you like them apples?

[RetArt]

Yes, this has also been widely discussed before. In a fringe thread "creation of man" http://forums.wtf.com/showthread.php?t=38262

I believe Jesys was alive, and that he was a great philosopher. All ancient texts are exaggerated in some form. They become much interesting that way.. (eg. the trojan war) And also easier to remember.. Also there is the Alexander the Great- factor. He at some parts rewrote the bible to make a major religion. He also took many parts off (eg. the gnostic gospels found in the egyptian desert in 1945).

I think it is a book with folklores, myths, symbolisms, philosophy, and truths. It is a great book, and it has done it´s job greatly, as explaining the unexplainable (2000 years ago) but now I see it somewhat obsolete. People have the need to know. They want order in chaos, and bible fitted that spot better than good. It also boosted mans ego, as a alpha-wolf of animals.
Like any other theory, time has run over it. It happens all the time. This was just spread with such machinery, that it is hard for people to let go. As it would also mean losing the main motives, meaning of life in some way, and the basis of all beliefs.

only my thoughts though

[Base]

I think that a man named Jesus did exist, but he wasn't the Son of God. I believe that he was a man with revolutionary ideas for his time. People then manipulated these IDEAS into faith and thus Christianity came about.
I think Jesus was a good normal man who just tried to help people.

But then again these are my thoughts. :happysad:

[1ct-on!]

i think the stuff what happened in the bible had happened truly ...

but with some other informations ...

where , the dude divided the sea for his people top walk through... pople this can happen , some scientists had found out that , well i don't know the exact location , but this can happen

where the sun stood still , this works either .!

Jesus was a man but i agree with base that hes was JUST a man not the son of god

[JLXC]

Since this is Fringe Theory.

What if Jesus was real, and did have special powers, not because he was the son of God, but because he was part alien? Seriously, a lot of the bible can be looked at as if they were refering to aliens, lots of things going on in the sky, lots of angels (read aliens). Maybe the aliens came to check us out, made a hybrid, and when the hybrid was trortured and killed they just bailed for a while.

Why not? It makes as much sense as the bible, and is problably statistically more probable. :)

[curliestalicia]

Adam and Eve remind me of the question which came first the chicken or the egg. Something everyone asks but never has the answers to.

Yeah I believe the bible to be true, but I also think that without faith that it cannot be understood. Everyone claims to have the correct interpretation..a million different ideas, and since the Christian community and their representative theologans disagree on what means what it only spreads further confusion.

The bible became a collected book at a certain period in time because a group called the gnostics began to teach different messages..closely related on the surface, but completely different in the end result. So the "church" that was one before the completion of the book sent in people from each region to agree upon what teachings were to be in the bible.

Herein lies a problem for those who have doubts about where the book came from..and who wrote the book..and how do we know that if we believe in God that the hands of men did not interfer with the message..All of these things rely upon faith, but more importantly what the Holy Spirit is and how it works.

[kindbud]

you're all going to hell.

but is that so bad?

bible= good literature
just don't get carried away with it.

the story of other prophets are ignored(or not as recognized) and somehow 'hey-zeus' became a skinny white guy.

seems a carpenter from the westbank area would be a bit more stocky and non-white.

now, what about scientology?

don't mean to jack this thread, but that is one fucked up story.

if you have only heard about it through tom cruise, do a search and read up. it cracks me up.

they have a name for a galatic warlord that sent 'us' here to earth to solve over population a few billion years ago(long time ago). problem is that all these bad spirits live in all of us...yes, you too, so you have to pay to get this lil fuckers out. 'i promise, it'll make you feel better!'

in their church you take staring classes and pay to hear more of the story of the master plan...but not before you are ready. it could kill you if you are not ready. (i wasn't ready and i just got a stomache ache...was lucky...think it was from laughing so much)
and l ron hubbard made up all this shit while trippin' on some good drugs....and cashed in.

i guess the pope and his gang are not so different, they just had a big headstart and a base in reality.

fuckin sheep.

[Shaman Yoh]

Two words numnuts: Sentence structure! Not even an ounce of what you said made any sense or had any meaning. You are a certified dumbass.:mfinger:

[kindbud]

Two words numnuts: Sentence structure! Not even an ounce of what you said made any sense or had any meaning. You are a certified dumbass.:mfinger:

my nuts are very sensitive. you are so dumb.

text can not be measured with ounces. unless you print it out and weigh the pages, but only a small portion of the weight would be the ink of the text.
you are so dumb.

much meaning in there. it is written in code and it's all about you.

pole.

[curliestalicia]

my nuts are very sensitive. you are so dumb.

text can not be measured with ounces. unless you print it out and weigh the pages, but only a small portion of the weight would be the ink of the text.
you are so dumb.

much meaning in there. it is written in code and it's all about you.

pole.
Nah..as one learns in English class..when a person attempts a communication through writing the aim is to make sure the target audience can understand and process presented information. Otherwise one could loose the interest of the targeted audience, and fail to get the communication the attention it so deserves.

[Captain 151]

The Bible is a good work of fiction, albeit fiction based on a limited amount of actual events, but beyond that it's all myth and dogma.

For instance, I don't doubt that there was a guy named Jesus alive at the time, and his role as a religious teacher is probably accurate, as are the different sects, tribes and cities that are outlined in the Bible. However, the rest of the book is nothing more than rhetoric. The stories contained in the Bible are simply meant to be used as parables – a tool for teaching religion to simpler people, via easy to understand stories.

Anyone who believes the bible to be 100% true is a complete idiot. Even most Christian fundamentalists acknowledge the presence of parables in the Bible.

Well said, jung. I am a Deist, usually, but I've read the Bible. I believe the Old Testament exists as a moral code, a sort of ethical background to the birth of man. When it gets closer to literal intereperetion...people for instance who dont believe in evolution, thats when the Bible becomes a "kook book" as my dad (a converted Christian to athiest) would say.

As for the New Testament, truth probably lends more influence.. particularly the Gospels.

[gallowraven]

I'd be willing to bet that if god does truly exist, atheism is less of an insult to him/her/it than religion...every religion thinks they are right, and everybody else is wrong...everyon has a small piece of the puzzle, but no one wants to admit that their religion is inherently flawed. I mean seriously, take a good look at the christians, most of them live believing that there is some almighty god that watches their every move, and if they make one mistake and aren't forgiven they are going to a place to burn and be tortured continuoualy until the end of time...but their god loves them...hmmm...do I smell hypocracy???

[Gorf]

I believe that if there is a God, It is only human arrogance to believe that we are created in his,her image.....I mean come on a being of this magnitude would probably not even be conciously aware of us (think of the bacteria that lines your asshole).And to think that he would place his only begotten son on this rock(If he in fact had one) what a fairytale.

Religion was something that was created by the powers that be to control us and to extort money from the masses.The Vatican was not built on the fact that God loves us ,it was built on cold hard cash.Have you heard of the Vatican it's considerd a sovreign Country."God" dosen't want you to worship him because he don't even know you exsist...

[Jugular]

Something else to think about...

Christians believe that everyone who trusts God, believes in God, and does God's will, will prosper in heaven. But then, what about Buddhists, Hindus, etc. who don't believe in the Christian God? They suffer?

Wow, kinda sucks for them. You might be saying, "but they all are faithful to one basic belief, 'be good'", but I ask you, what about the first commandment? It says to put God before all other gods, deities, and higher beings. So you can't believe in other gods, and if you do you won't do well in heaven.

Furthermore, if God treats everyone equally, sees the good in everyone, and forgives everyone, why should we forgive him? I recall a Bible statement, "forgive, so your God, in turn, can forgive you". So this is conflicting with God's equal treatment of all human beings.

Same thing goes for the first thing I said about people prospering in heaven more than other people. God wouldn't allow such treatment. Same thing for stuff like "blessed are the meek, for the kingdom of God is theirs..." crap.

And another thing I've been wondering is...

If the Holy Spirit grants us the faith we need to believe, why hasn't the Holy Spirit done it yet to all of us?



EDIT-
I previously said
Same thing goes for the first thing I said about people prospering in heaven more than other people. God wouldn't allow such treatment.

But maybe he would...

I mean, he would still love people not doing well in heaven, but maybe some people would do better than others...Just look at our world today. Compare Bill Gates to some poor kid in China.


EDIT EDIT-

More question(s)...

Who goes to hell? If God sees the inner good in everybody and I think is supposed to be stronger than Satan, who the fuck goes to hell? And if the answer is no one, then Hell is nothing more than a scare tactic.

[JLXC]

I've come to see much of the Bible after the King James revisions seem to support the rich. Hear me out this is fringe theory.

10 commandments.

You have to believe in God and only god, 2 cover this one. So it's wrong to not accept the others.
So you can't covet, because if someone has more than you... tough.
You can't steal their shit, because once they claim it as theirs, tough.
You can't kill them, so just deal with whatever they do to you, tough.
You should listen to your parents, they will teach you your place in the world.
One day should be a day when you reflect on the rules.
Don't have sex out of marriage because you have to be christian and follow the other rules before you can get laid.
Don't lie about your neighbor, of course, since those in power determine the truth, it's easy to have this one turned on you.

All in all, if someone has more than you, you have no recourse at all.

What do you all think?

[anabesi]

Christianity the biggest farce of a religion. Over 80 % of their holidays stolen. Thier bible just pieced together writings and all kinds of edited text and omited works. Id rather be a moonie or Krishna trying to give people pencils at the airport then affiliate my self with the christian religion. Oh boy dont even get me started on the Roman Catholics. Have you ever seen a bigger group of pompus asses.

[Quitii]

but saying we have evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate an apple? I think thats just an overacive imagination.
eve ate the apple because the serpent convince her to. which means that evil was around already. humans were given knowledge by eating the apple, but were punished by becoming mortal. read the bible more closely.

[FuckedOver]

here is a little story to show my views of this rubbish called religion.

Once upon a time in Africa a young lion was roaming his hunting grounds in the search for the biggest kill he could make. He saw the warthogs and decided they were to small to bother with, he saw the hippo and decided it was too much trouble. Then he saw a bull munching on the grass of the savana. He decided this was the kill to make his name heard.
The young lion raced across the plane, leaped through the air and sunk his teeth into the neck of the bull. Once he had killed his prey he let out a series of almighty roars which could be heard across the plane.
As the young lion was celebrating his kill at the top of his lungs an elephant came along and stepped on the lions head killing him instantly.

The moral of the story is;
When all you have is a load of bull, keep your mouth shut!!!

[Jugular]

eve ate the apple because the serpent convince her to. which means that evil was around already. humans were given knowledge by eating the apple, but were punished by becoming mortal. read the bible more closely.

Stop right there. The Bible says we have "original sin" because of Adam and Eve. Which means worldwide evil is their fault. So I just proved you wrong right there. And do you even read the Bible, or are you just saying that?

[beefjavelin]

Heaven and Hell was just made up so that people do the 'right' thing during their life, as someone mentioned earlier a scare tactic. If people werent so scared of burning and suffering for all eternity crime would have been at a much higher rate.

From this you can see religion as a moral code. Something to keep people in line. Maybe religion was started by governments as another way of stopping people from breaking laws they have set

[dustinzgirl]

From this you can see religion as a moral code. Something to keep people in line. Maybe religion was started by governments as another way of stopping people from breaking laws they have set

I doubt that since heaven and hell were idealogically around long before governments were. Government just twisted it and fucked up like they do everything else.

[Brain Spout]

it could be heaven and hell are made up it would be no more different than if anything else in the bible were made up except that it would have a profound effect upon us if they weren't real. the purpose behind making things like that up is to give you motivation to be a good person and a reason not to be a bad one. personally, i don't know.

[FuckedOver]

well thats a load of bull shit!


you can be a god fearing christian and still be an axe murderer.

you can have no religious beliefs and still never hurt a living being.

the existance of heaven and hell would not make a difference to the type of person you are.

[katieLC huh-duh]

Pretty much every person I know, knows the story of Jesus Christ. Only some of them believe it to be 100% true. If you don't know the story of Jesus start with this link: http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/lifescan/

Anyway, its pretty fucked up, yet beautiful at the same time. What are your thoughts on Jesus and his story? What evidence do we have to support the whole thing? Were the disciples a bunch of dopes? Is the Bible true?

That brings up another thing. Some parts in the Bible are a load of crap. Adam and Eve? WTF?!

I realize some of it is scientifically unexplanatory, and thats the beauty of it- but saying we have evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate an apple? I think thats just an overacive imagination.


THe Bible is not supposed to be taken literarly (however you spell that) its not because they ate an apple, its because they deliberatly sinned against God. some people think its because thye had sex. Myself, im not too sure what they did but point is they werent supposed to do it. i cant expalin to you anything scientifaclly. but i can tell you that its based on faith. you cant say "i want hard core proof of this before i believe" thats not the point. the point is to have faith that God is real and that what the bible says is true.

[hoseq]

THe Bible is not supposed to be taken literarly (however you spell that) its not because they ate an apple, its because they deliberatly sinned against God.

True, but they still ate an apple. But that could mesn that we're not to eat apples.

some people think its because thye had sex. Myself, im not too sure what they did but point is they werent supposed to do it. i cant expalin to you anything scientifaclly. but i can tell you that its based on faith. you cant say "i want hard core proof of this before i believe" thats not the point. the point is to have faith that God is real and that what the bible says is true.

OK, I do believe there is A god probably not the same god you believe in but A god anyway. But Istill look at the bible as:

1. A history book.
2. A book on how to have good manners.
3. A book about buisness.
4. A book on how to wage war.
5. A book on being a good family member.

And a few other key things about life, whether JC existed or not.

[dull_bullet]

The bible is not a history book!!!! :bonk: :bonk:

[hoseq]

The bible is not a history book!!!! :bonk: :bonk:

Your gonna look really stupid eating those words.:tongue:

[just.....]

I think religion was merely created to counteract human beings blatant savage nature. By instilling a fear that there might be reprucussions for all the evil the world was creating, religion helped to civilize humanity. Truly, I think most of it is bullshit, but as long as it keeps everyone in order I don't see anything wrong with it. A lot of my friends who are devout Christians say Jesus is who got them through the roughest parts of their lives. At first I couldn't see how some dead guy who was created to be some sort of supreme ruler after he was already dead could possibly help my friend with their problems more than I could. But I realized it wasn't really some dead guy, it was the idea that something beyond the depressing logic we live with each day existed.

[Jugular]

Your gonna look really stupid eating those words.:tongue:

Umm...why?

Maybe I'll read what you just said with a straight face when you prove Adam and Eve existed (and a bunch of other bullshit). And let me tell you that is NEVER, EVER, EVER going to happen. EVER.

Here, just read this...

The Bible is a good work of fiction, albeit fiction based on a limited amount of actual events, but beyond that it's all myth and dogma.

For instance, I don't doubt that there was a guy named Jesus alive at the time, and his role as a religious teacher is probably accurate, as are the different sects, tribes and cities that are outlined in the Bible. However, the rest of the book is nothing more than rhetoric. The stories contained in the Bible are simply meant to be used as parables – a tool for teaching religion to simpler people, via easy to understand stories.

Anyone who believes the bible to be 100% true is a complete idiot. Even most Christian fundamentalists acknowledge the presence of parables in the Bible.

If that doesn't get it through to you, maybe my horse, Sunshine, will. :oddgrin:

(B====>)

[darkstar]

I think religion was merely created to counteract human beings blatant savage nature. By instilling a fear that there might be reprucussions for all the evil the world was creating, religion helped to civilize humanity. Truly, I think most of it is bullshit, but as long as it keeps everyone in order I don't see anything wrong with it. A lot of my friends who are devout Christians say Jesus is who got them through the roughest parts of their lives. At first I couldn't see how some dead guy who was created to be some sort of supreme ruler after he was already dead could possibly help my friend with their problems more than I could. But I realized it wasn't really some dead guy, it was the idea that something beyond the depressing logic we live with each day existed.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbsup:
I also think its a way to explain things that dont make sense, one of the greatest fears of man kind is not knowing. With the ol' religeon as backup, you can blame something that doesnt make sense as 'act of god'. Then, fear gone. Its kinda a placebo, if we think we know, we go into denial and tell ourselves we ARE right.

[hoseq]

you're all going to hell.

but is that so bad?

bible= good literature
just don't get carried away with it.

the story of other prophets are ignored(or not as recognized) and somehow 'hey-zeus' became a skinny white guy.

seems a carpenter from the westbank area would be a bit more stocky and non-white.

now, what about scientology?

don't mean to jack this thread, but that is one fucked up story.

if you have only heard about it through tom cruise, do a search and read up. it cracks me up.

they have a name for a galatic warlord that sent 'us' here to earth to solve over population a few billion years ago(long time ago). problem is that all these bad spirits live in all of us...yes, you too, so you have to pay to get this lil fuckers out. 'i promise, it'll make you feel better!'

in their church you take staring classes and pay to hear more of the story of the master plan...but not before you are ready. it could kill you if you are not ready. (i wasn't ready and i just got a stomache ache...was lucky...think it was from laughing so much)
and l ron hubbard made up all this shit while trippin' on some good drugs....and cashed in.

i guess the pope and his gang are not so different, they just had a big headstart and a base in reality.

fuckin sheep.


I thought the discussion was about christianity not the suppression of religions. But if you feel the need to supress religions and other peoples beliefs lets start by taking a good close look at what you believe in.

P.S. You are IN hell.

[Sarikunai]

I think hell was just created to scare people into being good- I have my own ideas about things. But personally I think christains think they can just go to church and pray and their sing are gone and they got a new clean slate for next week. Personally I don't think that is right. I think there is such a thing as "heaven" or something like that. I think if you don't get your life right the first time you repeat it, therefor past lives. *Shrugs* But that's my opinion and it doesn't really count. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry. Just stating my thoughts.

[hoseq]

Umm...why?

Maybe I'll read what you just said with a straight face when you prove Adam and Eve existed (and a bunch of other bullshit). And let me tell you that is NEVER, EVER, EVER going to happen. EVER.

Here, just read this...



If that doesn't get it through to you, maybe my horse, Sunshine, will. :oddgrin:

(B====>)

Jug, my comment was to Dullbullet but as i said the bible is a history book. It just happens to be a family&group history from a specific area. then it concentraits into a biography which is also a type of history.

And the only thing your horse will do is recieve my saddle with cactus under it then my spurs which I will ensure have the rowels nicely sharpened to fine points, unlike the point on top of your head. :eek:

[car15]

I realize some of it is scientifically unexplanatory, and thats the beauty of it- but saying we have evil in the world because Adam and Eve ate an apple? I think thats just an overacive imagination.

You're taking it too literally. The creation story is a metaphor.

[vezza]

Also, arguing the trurth of religion will never work because you are arguing heresay, interpretations if that, of what occured hundreds of years ago. Then send that through countless language translations.

Then add to this fact that Constantine and later the Catholic church put there own spin on things. Even now the Catholic church is the authority on what gospels are true and what aren't. Because of these facts, I beleive that Religion and Christianity are man made. But it is just my belief, and I won't push my belief on others. I think it's all about belief anyway.

[freemasondrgn]

The Bible is BS. Almost everything in it can be proven wrong in some way or another. Also, almost everything in the bible has been changed since it was originally published. There are so many books of the bible that monks copying the bible, or the pope, or someone decided people didn't need to learn about. The book of Mary, The book of Judas...ect.
But, the Bible was never meant to be taken literally. It was supposed to teach Morals and Discipline.

[Chad]

Why man? That was seriously was the dumbest post I have ever read. Not only was it hard to read, but it was also pointless. Just because you thing the bible has changed doesn't mean the bible can't make you a better person. Honestly, whether if you consider it fiction or not, everyone can use guidance from the bible athiest or not.

[freemasondrgn]

Why man? That was seriously was the dumbest post I have ever read. Not only was it hard to read, but it was also pointless. Just because you thing the bible has changed doesn't mean the bible can't make you a better person. Honestly, whether if you consider it fiction or not, everyone can use guidance from the bible athiest or not.

I never said that the Bible can't make you a better person. I believe that everyone could learn something from the bible. It's just that (no offense) the church has screwed up the Bible so much that its lost alot of its meaning.
I think that the pope is an asshole because (and again, no offense) of the above reasons, and because of things like the Dan Brown incident. Just for voicing his thoughts and opinions, he was excomunicated from the church, and it was made a sin to read any of his books.

[Jugular]

You're taking it too literally. The creation story is a metaphor.

That was explained to me later on in the thread.

Read the whole thing, dumbass.