The Bible? Anti Women? Surely not!?

[area51newmexico]

I have been search the site www.biblegateway.com for the Bible's anti-women references, so far I have found a few- (this is a long post, just thought I'd warn you) . I believe that most of todays injustices are due to crap like this being taken as "fact".

"14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.
15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people."

That doesn't sound very nice! Blaming us for turning people away from god! and killing women, meanies!

Titus 2:3-5
4Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
Also not very positive!

Lamentations 3:50-52
51 What I see brings grief to my soul
because of all the women of my city.

52 Those who were my enemies without cause
hunted me like a bird.

1 Timothy 2:9-11 Society

9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
again, not very positive. My personal "favourite" is below-

Timothy 2:14-16 (14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Corinthians 14:34
34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.

Ezekiel 23:44-46
45 But righteous men will sentence them to the punishment of women who commit adultery and shed blood, because they are adulterous and blood is on their hands.
So adultery is womens' fault and not mens???

Ok, I think I've done enough quotes to get my point across, the Bible hates women. I reckon us women deserve a little more respect than this!

[void]

Ok, I think I've done enough quotes to get my point across, the Bible hates women. I reckon us women deserve a little more respect than this!

i can't comment much on your post as i've never read any of the bible, i assume it was merely a product of the times and back then women were probably worth less than a donkey.. i'm not saying that was right but it's just the way society is when men hold all the cards.. look at the taliban.
but my main point is that i'm confused, your profile says you are male and this post refers to you as female. which are you?

[junglizm]

The bible is a handbook for atrocities against humanity, and intelligence.

[Sod]

The bible is just a book full of morals written by a bunch of old men through history.

[void]

i think, except for the spaceship bit, that monty python's life of brian is far better than the bible..
1. it isn't a book.
2. it has nudity.
3. better songs.
4. more jokes, much more jokes.
5. more interesting central character.
6. less blood. (if compared to the bible spin-off movie, the passion.)
7. better characters all round, i'm not sure but i doubt biggus dickus was in the bible.
8. etc.. and actually i like the spaceship bit but it's just not realistic.. (like 9/10ths of the bullshit in the bible).

[blkmasta]

ech....dont get me wrong, im a male feminist, but eventually feminism will go too far.

think about it.

eventually, women will hold all the cards, and men will be in the same position as women were a couple decades a go.

btw, has anyone actually read the bible through?

[junglizm]

btw, has anyone actually read the bible through?
Yes, from cover to cover.

[Unforgiven]

Yes.

Well, had it read to me anyway.

[void]

no.

i have read books of a similar size/scope but as i'm not really interested in fiction, and especially not fantasy, the bible just never got read.
i went to a school were they would try and teach us the lessons of the bible, with varying degrees of success.
the only 'religious' books i have read are the standard translation/interpretation of the tibetan book of the dead, the prophet, siddhartha and quite a few books by thich naht hanh.. all of which were actually quite interesting.. but still fiction.

[Icarus]

ech....dont get me wrong, im a male feminist, but eventually feminism will go too far.

think about it.

eventually, women will hold all the cards, and men will be in the same position as women were a couple decades a go.

I sincerely doubt that. Most feminists want equality, they're not the bulldykes yelling "pig!" and castrating people that are stereotyped.

[area51newmexico]

Yes, I'm female, I just haven't gotten round to changing my profile yet, I've not been on much. Yes, most feminist want equality, not a complete change. My problem with the bible is that people today take the book as "fact" without questioning it. Many of todays laws are based on it and if it's taking bollocks that makes our laws bollocks! Plus some people believe they can treat women badly because the "bible said I could".

[Jack]

The Bible is a horrible fucking read.

Area 51 is in Nevada.

[JLXC]

I've read the bible, several versions, many times.

Yes it is prejudiced against women.

It is also prejudiced against thinking and overall intelligence. To name a couple small things.

[BadEvilWrong]

Try www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
You can bring up a list of every single portion of the KJV that contains references to women with a single click. It also has other interesting sections, like false prophecies, contradictions, clashes with proven science, injustices, etc.

[dustinzgirl]

Good thing the King James Version is not the actual bible.

But, as for that, name something that is not anti women that men made, and I will have Taylor_Blade and Uber suck you off.

PS: DId any of you ever think of not taking the bible literally, and mabye looking for the meaning and truth written in between the lines, like LOVE, HONOR, FAITH and LOYALTY?

Didn't thinks so. Moving on now.

BTW Dip[shits, this is from the OLD TESTAMENT. The old testament is written as a historical account of creation, hebrews, ect. The new testament is where any god fearing man will gain his truth.


The Book of Ruth
Read it.

I really really hate people who PURPOSELY Take only what they want from the bible for thier own twisted purposes.

You are not any better than a single Christian Fundamentalist simply for that fact.

[void]

PS: DId any of you ever think of not taking the bible literally, and mabye looking for the meaning and truth written in between the lines, like LOVE, HONOR, FAITH and LOYALTY?



sod mentioned morals in post #4.. i am far from immoral, i have all the above in spades, and i don't beat up on christians.. i just didn't read the book when i was a kid as i had a rebel streak 3 miles wide, and when i grew up i found buddha sexier.
the moral lessons are the same in all the big books, we should have moral class in school.. :thumbsup:

[BadEvilWrong]

Insert some stuff here
Correct, the KJV isn't the actual bible. But since none of us here are fluent enough in archaic languages that have ambiguities lost to time, what else can we go on?

Men made calculus. Not anti-woman, last I checked. And no, I'd rather not have Taylor and Uber suck me off, thanks.

Why read in between the lines of the bible for morals? I can justify good behavior logically. Finding out what those morals are? Logic again. Who needs the religion? And your chosen virtues? Faith? Why believe something without evidence when you can be certain? Loyalty? What if the cause/person/group is not worth being loyal to? Love? Normally a good thing, but I've seen people ruin themselves trying to love someone that wasn't worth loving. Honor sounds fine, but what is honor really? Acting morally? I make every attempt to do that, and all I have to look forward to when I die is oblivion. I don't believe in some furnace where I'll go if I'm a bad boy. Ever ask yourself what it is that keeps someone like me in line?

Furthermore, the link the I posted keeps track of all flaws in the bible, both old and new testament. I can and will abuse any portion of it for the purpose of showing the world that Christianity is nothing more than a fraud forged by barbarians, the New Testament included. There are better ways to live, and I will teach those interested what I can. If you find that to be "twisted", then that's your problem. On the side, I'll check out this Book of Ruth that you speak of. Any other issues that you have that I should address?

[dustinzgirl]

Bad: Some time ago, there was this big old thing that we had to vote on in oregon deciding wheather something was right or wrong. So this big ass Christian Coalition group took very specific Old Testament verses and made their entire fuckign political standing on it. I absolutely despise anyone that does that, because in the same chapter that it says man should not lay with man, it also says that you can stone your nieghbor for growing the same crops as you and that a man has to marry his dead brother's wife.

For every point you make about the bible in the old testament you can find an opposit point, except that man should have faith. If you can not see that and you would rather go to some stupid fucking website than find your own way, then so be it.

The point of faith is simply believing. It is not science, it is not something you see. It just is. Either you have it or you want to have it, I really don't care. My choice is to have faith, yours is not. But that is really way, way off the point here.

The bible is a book that of course has flaws in it, it was written by men and translated several times, then some man king took and changed what he wanted to and called it the King James Version. Of course we do not speak archaic languages, although there is a 1400 (?) or so bible written in latin I think it is at the vatican or some place---I did a study on it several, several years ago---that is a pre-king james versin. Latin is not that hard to learn.

Anyhoo, what I am saying is that mabye you all do not need to be so literal.

Take, for instance the story of Moses, and yes he did order to have women killed. This was before the 10 commandments, btw. IN that time, genocide was a fairly normal way to get your point across. And yet, because it is in the bible, everybody freaks out about it. Well, there is a LOT of genocide going on in the world and it is not being recorded as well, and really nobody cares about it... (Middle East, Turkey, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Africa)


See, you can link me to places that point out the wrongs of the bible, and that is fine I really do not care. I do not read my bible for literal interpretation like some, which is probably why I still have faith, when most others that were raised Catholic lost it.

There is a message behind everything. You just have to have the patience to look for it.

As for you Void, honestly I do not know if you are an immoral or moral person, and really it is none of my business. That is the problem with people today, nobody is religious or spiritual on a personal basis. Your relationship with your god or lack there of is your decision, your business. Not mine.

I have faith because I choose to, regardless of persecution and idiocy that I deal with.



PS OF course the old testament was anti women dipshit it was written in the time of Persia, of Alexander the Great and early Rome. Der. Women were property in that time. Fathers sold their daughters to men of their choice. And you know what is sad, people still behave that way to this day, especially in those older regions

Fucking dipshits.

[BklynCannonball]

DG, I'm following you....:tongue:

[void]

As for you Void

why is that when i read those words i pictured one of my school teachers turning around really fast with lightning bolts coming out of her eyes and catching me drawing pictures of her naked on my schoolbook? :happysad:
"and AS FOR YOU VOOIIID!!!"
zap..

i think this thread may be dying but i will add, i don't have a god but if i ever met one i would listen.

[mmm...cheese]

Read, read, and read some more. DG said what I wanted to, (more or less). :tongue:

[junglizm]

Good thing the King James Version is not the actual bible. That's actually a really good point. Too bad it has no bearing on any of these comments, since it's the version most people have read. And unless you're fluent in Hebrew, your point is moot, as you've probably not read the "real" bible yourself.
PS: DId any of you ever think of not taking the bible literally, and mabye looking for the meaning and truth written in between the lines, like LOVE, HONOR, FAITH and LOYALTY?Sorry, but I don’t need promises of a rewarding after life and scare tactics to make me moral; I derive my morality from social paradigms, sympathy and what I think to be right.

I really really hate people who PURPOSELY Take only what they want from the bible for thier own twisted purposes. I'm sorry that the "infallible" text that people take as the utter truth is riddled with inconsistencies, contradictions, fallacies and lies. However, I'm not sorry for bringing it up. It's not my fault some people would rather deny all logic and act in a way that would cause anyone but a Christian to be labeled as insane, eccentric or stupid. As a Christian those are your skeletons in the closet, you deal with them. I will continue to delight in making light of the Christian bullshit. :)

[BadEvilWrong]

Oh silly DG, what am I ever going to do with you? If you're going to reply to me in a serious thread, you could have at least the courtesy to do more than briefly scan my post first. If you actually read it in it's entirety, you'd know that the site is nothing more than a tool for the OP to research her chosen topic easily. It's a bible. It's annotated by a cynic. Simple. It's not a site devoted to any sort of way, whatever the hell a way is. You'd also know that my beliefs come from my conscience and reason as far as I'm able to understand it. If by some rare chance I find a train of thought on the web that appears to be better than my own, I research it and spend plenty of time thinking it through. If I find it to be superior, I adopt it. That's right, the same process that we use to improve our understanding of science is the one that I use for my code of morals.

But where do you get your morals? The new testament, right? I don't know how much attention you've paid to what it says, but the NT is only a little less shitty than the OT. I will gladly debate the point with you if you so wish, but since the KJV is the only English version that hasn't been edited to sound less like it was written by the barbarians that it was, forgive me if I use that as my source. And don't tell me not to take it so literally. You tell us not to take the bible so literally, yet you learned a dead language to read an older version of the bible. Did you take that literally?

But of all of that, there is one thing about you that bugs me to no end. You know the most of the bible is pure shit. Okay, I understand that you have faith. Fine. But why in the world do you choose this particular faith? I cannot possibly see what it has for you to hold onto. You've picked the bloodiest, and certainly one of the most primitive religions. I'm almost certain that belief in your particular religion was originally due to nothing more than an accident of geography. So why, in the name of all that is unholy, why Christianity? Why not Wicca? I've never met a pagan or buddhist that I've hated yet. Every religion that I've encountered believes in an afterlife. Why this one? It's leaders are contemptible, it's teachings wretched, and it's god cruel and vindictive.

And Jung, good job on pretty much saying what I did with half of the space taken. I'd rep, but I can't. :(

[Avidity]

I sincerely doubt that. Most feminists want equality, they're not the bulldykes yelling "pig!" and castrating people that are stereotyped.

Hm... It appears we have a conflict. I am for female equality, but anti-feminist. WHY you ask? Because each feminist rants on and on about the evil penis and how it has ruined existence. They shove down MY throat facts about women being traded for camels or bullshit. Not to be rude, but I DON'T CARE! I'M NOT DOING IT! They shove facts and beliefs down other people's throats.

This is the error of virtually every political, religious, and sexist(for lack of a better term) faction. If you just tried to be polite about it and not stand on a street corner screaming "You're going to Hell!"(Big nono to all christians), or rallying in front of a statue-an inanimate object- and screaming something like "Woman Hater!"(Big nono to femmies) or standing before a podium and screaming "The candidate for party A is a jackass for expressing his belieifs and not believing what I believe!(Nono for polticians) I think you would get more people willing to listen to your side of the story.

I know I'm doing the same thing I'm advocating against, but hey:
A) It's a rant and thereby a steam release.
B) Soapbox talkers seldom listen to civilized conversations-they tend to interrupt and then spout irrelevant facts.
C) Well, there is no "C", but it wouldn't look as qualified an arguement with only "A" and "B". :P

P.S. NOONE READS GODDAMN PAMPHLETS SO STOP CHURNING THEM OUT! I WOULD RATHER BE BREATHING IN TREE FARTS(thats exactly what a tree does, too-farts out air)!

[cowburn86]

what would be the consequences if someone tried to set up a new religion like christianity today. say if someone believed they were the new son of god. i'll have a pretty good guess and say that they would be firstly laughed at. a lot. then put in a mental institution for their beliefs and ideas. i mean even if they didnt have all the crap about women and gays and stuff and just accepted everyone and encouraged people to be good and all obedient to their new religion with no proof of a gods existance. i don't think people would take to kindly to that. so why is it that just because christianity has been around for century's that people are willing to accept it blindly with no evidence? i can only imagine it is because of the ideas that they have instilled into them from an age where they are not capable of reasoning or justification. why should children be allowed to choose their religion if they are no even considered rational enough beings to vote? my proposal: no one under the age of 16 should be allowed to be indoctrinated into any religion or set of beliefs. this would allow for people to make rational judgements upon facts and opinions that they believe to be true and end to farcical religions such as christianity.

p.s. i am entirely aware that this policy would be impossible to enforce and a severe infringement on people's freedoms (you should have the right to be force-fed religious crap at an age when you are too young to know better)

[void]

what would be the consequences if someone tried to set up a new religion like christianity today.

mormons?

[RedOctober]

why is that when i read those words i pictured one of my school teachers turning around really fast with lightning bolts coming out of her eyes and catching me drawing pictures of her naked on my schoolbook? :happysad:
"and AS FOR YOU VOOIIID!!!"
zap..


A dirty mind is a joy forever.. :cool:

[junglizm]

what would be the consequences if someone tried to set up a new religion like christianity today.
It would be called a cult, and the members labeled as crazy sensationalists who have been duped into believing dogmatic lies. But somehow Christianity is different. :rolleyes:

[dustinzgirl]

I do not speak or read Hebrew. I asked if you guys did, which none of you do. And junglizm, I am not sure where in the bible is says that you are going to hell? Personally I think you are going to purgatory, which is not in the bible but I think it exists all the same. Im not saying the bible is the definitive source on life, what I am trying to get across to you kids is this:

1. The Bible is INTERPRETIVE. It is not LITERAL.
2. You have no idea what the true meaning of Faith is, you all prove that to me every day.
3. Science only lasts until you die. It only records what can be seen, felt, and controlled. If you base everything on science, then I can only feel sorry for you. There is so much more in life. You would tell me that the love I have for my kids is only a chemical reaction, a natural instinct and not a spiritual connection.
4. People who take one thing from the bible and make it the entire basis of thier fucking debate piss me off. The bible is a book meant to be a guide and a foundation for faith, not a literal interpretation.
5. I still think you are wrong Junglizm, and whether I'm right or not, well, I guess we will just have to wait until we die. Then we will see.

I do not have a witty and well thought out political form like Jung does. Im not that bright. He will outsmart me in any debate, even if in my heart and soul I know he is fucking wrong. I do not know how to prove that I am right, I do not believe that faith requires proof, that is why we call it faith.

As for the bible being anti-women, ever previous comment is taken out of context on that account. Moses was at war, do you think our government bombs make a distinction between men and women? Also, there are many positive remarks for women in the bible, you just have to find them.

[BklynCannonball]

1. The Bible is INTERPRETIVE. It is not LITERAL.

Yes, and apparently anyone can interpret it to fit whatever agenda they're pushing.

2. You have no idea what the true meaning of Faith is, you all prove that to me every day.

There is no absolute truth. You kinda have to go with the flow.

And please don't capitalize Faith. The only word worth capitalizing is "Fuck". Well, at least a good Fuck.

3. Science only lasts until you die. It only records what can be seen, felt, and controlled. If you base everything on science, then I can only feel sorry for you. There is so much more in life. You would tell me that the love I have for my kids is only a chemical reaction, a natural instinct and not a spiritual connection.

Science cures diseases helps make change and helps us better understand nature. If we used this knowledge to create instead of destroy, imagine where we'd be now.

4. People who take one thing from the bible and make it the entire basis of thier fucking debate piss me off. The bible is a book meant to be a guide and a foundation for faith, not a literal interpretation.


The Bible is a conspiracy. Burn it! I didn't mean that. I don't believe in burning books. Besides, where else are all the soap opera script writers gonna get their stories?


Christianity is anti-women. Any religion that (and we're not speaking literally here folks) embraces the father and kills the mother is anti-women, anti-nature, anti-progress.

Wooooo! I'm gonna go burn my bra now!

[junglizm]

1. The Bible is INTERPRETIVE. It is not LITERAL.
I'm happy that you think this way, however, most Christians don't. They pick and choose what to take literally and what not to. Ever wondered why Baptists don't drink alcohol, yet the bible clearly says that Jesus turned water into wine? :lol: Bible 'interpretation' is largely selective.

2. You have no idea what the true meaning of Faith is, you all prove that to me every day.
You couldn't be more wrong. I understand faith very well, however, I can't allow myself to be led by blind faith, which is what superstitions and religions demand. I have faith that my girlfriend loves me, I have faith that my daughter will grow up to be a highly intelligent and successful women, I have faith that gravity will be the same tomorrow as it is today, et al. However, I can't have faith in things I think to be irrational. If it makes it easier for you to understand, let's just say I have faith in logic.

I look at it this way. You can either believe that some magical, omnipotent, secretive being created us out of love, in his own perfect image, indoctrinated us with his holy writ as law, proclaimed unconditional love for mankind, promised us wonderful salvation if we agreed with him, but threatened us with eternal damnation if we disobeyed, and then disappeared without a trace.

Or you can believe that this is life, that we're far from being modeled after a perfect being or beings, that man made up religion and the bible as a comfort and control mechanism, that the only wonders in life are those we see everyday, a la reality, and that there is no elusive magician in the sky.

The later just seems more plausible and rational to me. There simply isn't any evidence to support the god mythos; thus, I cannot, with good conscious, subscribe to that train of thought. Nothing short of god himself saying "wazzzzup” will ever change that for me, no matter how much you rationalize my supposed lack of faith.

I will say this though, despite being a staunch atheist, I would have to acknowledge a higher power if one ever made itself known to me. I go by evidence, and I wouldn't discount it even if it contradicted my beliefs. This alone makes me more rational than 99% of all religious people.

3. Science only lasts until you die.
Purely conjecture. If what you say was true though, gravity would've stopped working when Newton died. :D The truth is that science transcends the physical limitations of our life span, much like history does. Science has been man's crowning achievement, not religion. No god or religion has ever explained things in the way science can, nor have they benefited mankind the way science has.

Religion is philosophy; it is intrinsically incapable of dealing with rational reality. Religion only deals with theoretical spiritual explanations of the meaning of things that happen. However, it offers no sound explanations of these things.

Science deals strictly with reality, or proposed reality; it seeks to explain the how and why these things happen.

Science is the purest form of truth and human intelligence we know. Religion is the purest for of conjecture and superstition we know. The two are incomparable; apples and oranges.


What’s my point in all this? I choose to forgo the feel good, pat yourself on the back because everything is going to be alright stuff, and get down to the cold hard facts of life. Some people prefer to revel in the superstitions and conjecture.

It only records what can be seen, felt, and controlled.
Yes, we call this rational reality; it is where we live.

If you base everything on science, then I can only feel sorry for you. There is so much more in life. You would tell me that the love I have for my kids is only a chemical reaction, a natural instinct and not a spiritual connection.
Explanations of love, beyond the obvious chemical reactions, are more attuned to philosophy than science.

4. People who take one thing from the bible and make it the entire basis of thier fucking debate piss me off. The bible is a book meant to be a guide and a foundation for faith, not a literal interpretation.
Many parts, such as the parables, seem that way, but much of the bible was written as a chronicle of a prophecy, and definitive guide to salvation. How a believer takes it is completely up to them; your point is only of merit to those who agree with you.

I do not have a witty and well thought out political form like Jung does. Im not that bright. He will outsmart me in any debate, even if in my heart and soul I know he is fucking wrong. Don't be so quick to discount your abilities. You've made many good points in our discussions, and made me think and re-think things more than a few times. I've never read a serious post form you that lead me to believe you were anything but intelligent. :)


I do not know how to prove that I am right, I do not believe that faith requires proof, that is why we call it faith.That is called blind faith, but you're right; you can't prove something that doesn't stem from logical proof or material evidence.

As for the bible being anti-women, ever previous comment is taken out of context on that account. There are many excerpts form the bible that do condescend women, but the interpretation all depends on how literal one take the passages. There is no right or wrong way to interpret it, nor can either side be proven. You're guessing just as much as the next guy.