Extinction

[magnolia]

What is the signifigance of extinction on the human race. (Note: not extinction OF the human race.) What threats does it pose to humans when a creature such as the Dodo Bird or the Passanger Pigeion become extinct at our hands from over-hunting, habitat destruction, and the addition of foriegn preditors? It could be argued that it lessens us as a race and takes away from our future generations. I have never seen a passenger pigeion although I've been told that during their hay-day they flew in flocks so large that they darkened the sky wherever they flew. How can one species that was so plentiful die out so quickly at our hands? Now they're but history.

What effect do zoos have upon us? They show children that it's ok for animals to be kept in captivity. The animals that our children are seeing behind glass and bars are not the animals that they would be in the wild. Why do you think that Pandas don't often successfully mate in captivity? If a human was put in a glass "exhibit" others would cry in outrage. "How can you do this to your fellow man?! It is inhumane!" What is the difference between caging a fellow human and a wild animal? Is it still not removing the individual from their familiar habitat in order to be gawked at? Their dignity and identity stripped from them?

These are some of my ideas. Any others?

[Schmoky]

I think you're putting these animals on a pedestal.

I agree that zoos are pretty ridiculous, but I have a hard time saying that animals are "stripped of their dignity".

I went to Red Lobster, and felt a bit guilty watching the lobsters squirm around, as they were about to be killed and eaten by customers. But then I realized, things have been eating other things for eons before we came along. Who are we to stop that?


I know, this isn't what you were talking about. Just my thoughts on vegeterian...ism.


About holding animals in captivity...

Well they're gonna die out there in the wild, with us out there shooting them or building shit and whatnot, so I figure: Let's just round 'em up and take 'em to zoos, until this whole industrialist thing is worked out, and they have better homes that aren't being torn down.

[TheLampIncident]

Since when do animals have dignity? They're not intelligent enough for that. I bet half the animals in a zoo don't even realize they're in captivity.

[Base]

Since when do animals have dignity? They're not intelligent enough for that. I bet half the animals in a zoo don't even realize they're in captivity.

so are you saying that since we have cars and technology that we are obviously that most intelligent creature on the planet? yet all we do is move into an area and destroy and use every availible resource there is in the area and then just move into another.

animals are intelligent, they hunt in packs and corodinate plans to capture their pray. the build ventilated tunnels systems that keep them warm in winter and cool in summer. they migrate thousands of mile without aids of maps. yes some of these are instinct, but on the engineering side and tactics and in even further areas they are intelligent.

Probably animals born in captivity don't know what it's like in the wild because captivity is all they've know. prehapse there is a base instinct that they know that this isn't their natural habitat. Now animals that are born in the wild and then put into capitvity, i am 100% positive that they know that this new place is not right.

[Schmoky]

You've proven your point. It's pretty easy to imagine a sea lion being quite a bit smarter than you :D

Anyway, that poster you quoted, he never said anything about us being the smartest things alive on this planet.

However, we are. There's no possible way to argue it. Sure, some animals may coordinate plans to hunt their prey, but we invented guns to make it easier. I'm sorry if I seem arrogant, but we are the most evolved, smartest creatures alive on this planet. Any other "forward-thinking" or "alternate-thinking" bullshit you say can't possibly argue with the facts.


You're not being philosophical saying that animals are smarter; it's been said before, only to be proven wrong.

[UberSkippy]

Animals have been going extinct for eons. Long before humans came along. And after we go extinct nothing will change.

If it's not a meteore it could be a hurricane, or a slight climate change or whatever.

Yes, we have helped other species fall off the face of the planet. While that's probably not our best move, it appears that if nothing else, we are simply a tool of Mother Nature. At the rate we're going, we'll cause our own extinction at any rate. Be it through disease, war or simple famine it'll happen.

As far as zoos go, think of them as a lesser of two evils. If those animals weren't kept in captivity many of them would be extinct themselves. Zoos provide more than simple locations for people to look at critters. They provide research as well as breeding programs to help increase the animal populations of severely depleated populations In many cases they're only prolonging the inevitable but it's an attempt to undo some of the wrong at least.

[Schmoky]

As far as zoos go, think of them as a lesser of two evils. If those animals weren't kept in captivity many of them would be extinct themselves. Zoos provide more than simple locations for people to look at critters. They provide research as well as breeding programs to help increase the animal populations of severely depleated populations In many cases they're only prolonging the inevitable but it's an attempt to undo some of the wrong at least.

Exactly. You gotta stop looking at it like the whole world is out against animals. The zoos help more than they hinder, I'd think.

[magnolia]

Exactly. You gotta stop looking at it like the whole world is out against animals. The zoos help more than they hinder, I'd think.
You'd think wrong. Now, I'm not into P.E.T.A. or any other right wing animal liberalist groups, BUT have you been to the zoo lately? Some of those animals are forced to lay in their own feces and they can't just get away from it. They have sores that ooze and they just don't look happy. I know some zoos take better care of their animals than others, but I'd think that a wildlife reserve would be a better way to protect and view animals without taking away so much space. And I never said that animals are more intelligent or anything. I just don't think they're being treated well.

[Schmoky]

Well unfortunately, hoping for more wildlife reserves is a bit optimistic. There's no way the government is gonna give any more than the complete bare minimum for animals.


Zoos, on the whole, are better than living in the wild, for now anyway.

[Jugular]

What effect do zoos have upon us? They show children that it's ok for animals to be kept in captivity.

No, they have entertainment, educational, and some zoos just keep animals there that are dying out (or some other shit like that).

I agree, some zoos are outreagous in terms of keeping clean and preserving the animal's freedom, but as far as I know, the animals aren't exactly dying, nor are they being humiliated. But then again, theres always something these businesses are hiding from us. I haven't done any research.

[Chad]

I don't think animals really care. The animals main goal in life is to eat sleep mate and stay alive. Humans are the smartest animals on the planet. If we were not the smartest animal I wouldnt be making a pissing contest over which animal is the smartest. Its hard to comprehend that humans have thoughts. I think things such as, my brain is made up of tissue, tissue is made of cells, cells are made of mitochondria, DNA,Mitochondria and DNA are made up of chemical compounds. Chemical compounds are element(or atoms)
What you are reading right now is thought up of a pile of atoms. Carbon, iron, calcium. Thats it. I dont understand How I can remember things and be made out of carbon. The brain is one awesome thing.

[BrIONwoshMunky]

The animals main goal in life is to eat sleep mate and stay alive.

Those are my main goals in life, and yet, I don't want to be locked in a cage.

[Chad]

I want to be in a cage. it would be the kinkyest porn ever. I get to eat sleep naked and have sex infront of everyone all day long. IN a cage!!

[TheLampIncident]

Those are my main goals in life, and yet, I don't want to be locked in a cage.

If you have a job and a home, you are locked in a cage.

[BrIONwoshMunky]

Uh.... I choose to work at my job, and I choose to live in a home. I'm just speculating here, but if the gates were opened, I wouldn't think too many would stick around.

[TheLampIncident]

I don't think anybody would choose to work or live in the same place all the time unless they had to. But what do I know, this is another issue entirely.

[kindbud]

live and work in the same place- yes, all the time for a period of years, yeh many do. job security to continue standard of living might be easier in other places, but find a cool place and settle.

i came in way into the thought. you were late.

as for the animals. yeh they want to roam. think about your domesticated dog. every time he has a shot out the front door, he's gone and will just run..and run. and laugh. no responsibilities.

animals can be held in captivity humanly, but for lions, tigers, large fish...i just think about a typical footprint of what they cover in the wild during a year and compare it to their possible movements in their captive situation. some measure up well, but not these large guys.

however, i can only be so freethinking because my curiosity was quenched when i saw each of those big creatures in a zoo. safaris are expensive and too far.

national parks are great for seeing some badass beasts in person.

[HoneyImHome]

Is it still not removing the individual from their familiar habitat in order to be gawked at?
Ask celebrities when they go "on location" :D

Seriously, I have to agree with pretty much everything Uber said. Just to add though, honestly, if it wasn't us, it could be a number of other factors. The fact is humans are part of the earth's ecosystem, therefore everything we do while building our shelter, existing in our own habitats, feeding our young, etc is directly related to how we co-exist on the planet with the other animals. Hell, think about it, some zoos have animals that we'd easily sit down and dine on, you think (if everything was reversed) the wild carnivores would be so kind to give us room and board if we were close to extinction?

For the most part zoos do a lot more good than bad. There are people there who really care about the animals and are seeking what's best for their different species. They tag, sometimes treat and take in sick/injured animals then re-release them to the wild as well. They also keep tabs on species that are becoming extinct and assist in whatever efforts it takes to prevent this. We (humans) have saved a few species by doing this. I know some zoos are disgusting with their upkeep, and they should/probably do get dealt with as needed.

Good topic. :thumbsup:

[magnolia]

I don't think animals really care. The animals main goal in life is to eat sleep mate and stay alive.

I don't agree with this. You see that animals care how they're treated if you look at dogs. If a dog has been mistreated it will show. They act very much like an abused human would. They don't sit straight. They don't look anything in the eye, they slink around. If you raise your voice they cower. Yeah, their main goal in life is to eat sleep mate and stay alive, but if the life they are living isn't a quality one, then why live it at all? Animals can be depressed just like humans can. Which brings me back to my poin that animals in captivity aren't going to act like the animal in the wild. Even though the wild and caged animal are the same, the will always act differently.

[Chad]

I don't agree with this. You see that animals care how they're treated if you look at dogs. If a dog has been mistreated it will show. They act very much like an abused human would. They don't sit straight. They don't look anything in the eye, they slink around. If you raise your voice they cower. Yeah, their main goal in life is to eat sleep mate and stay alive, but if the life they are living isn't a quality one, then why live it at all? Animals can be depressed just like humans can. Which brings me back to my poin that animals in captivity aren't going to act like the animal in the wild. Even though the wild and caged animal are the same, the will always act differently.



Ok Ok,I dont think really stupid animals care. I think humans should die. because then I wouldnt have to worry about anything. Ever again.

[....]

To say zoo's do a great job because they help keep some species from extinction is rediculous. These animals are becoming extinct, most of the time, because of us. Instead of us curbing our habits and "needs"(these are actually wants) we place them in cages and living areas, much smaller than what they are used to, or at least the wild version from their species, making them live lives which just isn't what they are meant for, a lot of the time for the amusement of us humans who again if it wasn't for us they wouldn't need us to save them!

One thing that has to bother people is this. Sure I eat meat, I love eating meat and would never consider giving it up, but don't you find it strange how we consider this to be ok, passing it off as something that has happened for "eons and eons" but then when something like a shark eats a human, after they have willingly gone into their territory, other humans feel the need to go and hunt down this animal and slaughter it simply because it did what comes naturally to it? That is something that no one can clearly give a valuable excuse for...

[Chad]

To say zoo's do a great job because they help keep some species from extinction is rediculous. These animals are becoming extinct, most of the time, because of us. Instead of us curbing our habits and "needs"(these are actually wants) we place them in cages and living areas, much smaller than what they are used to, or at least the wild version from their species, making them live lives which just isn't what they are meant for, a lot of the time for the amusement of us humans who again if it wasn't for us they wouldn't need us to save them!

One thing that has to bother people is this. Sure I eat meat, I love eating meat and would never consider giving it up, but don't you find it strange how we consider this to be ok, passing it off as something that has happened for "eons and eons" but then when something like a shark eats a human, after they have willingly gone into their territory, other humans feel the need to go and hunt down this animal and slaughter it simply because it did what comes naturally to it? That is something that no one can clearly give a valuable excuse for...

Hey guess what, if we don't cage them the open space, which they are used to,they would die.The space would be their downfall. the animals would never meet, and in that would never mate. And in the case they did meet the children of those animals would not be able to mate(with eachother, or any other animal of their species which is able to mate). so really if we keep them close together genes between the animals wont be bottle-necked between 2 different parents.

And really when an animal is on the verge of dieing out, what good does it leaving them in the open for poachers to get them?


As for the sharks, that does suck for them.. but no one cares about them anyway.

[Base]

You've proven your point. It's pretty easy to imagine a sea lion being quite a bit smarter than you :D

Anyway, that poster you quoted, he never said anything about us being the smartest things alive on this planet.

However, we are. There's no possible way to argue it. Sure, some animals may coordinate plans to hunt their prey, but we invented guns to make it easier. I'm sorry if I seem arrogant, but we are the most evolved, smartest creatures alive on this planet. Any other "forward-thinking" or "alternate-thinking" bullshit you say can't possibly argue with the facts.


You're not being philosophical saying that animals are smarter; it's been said before, only to be proven wrong.

first, thank you for the sealion comment, greatly appreciated.

second, i was asking a question (question marks usually indicate questions) if that was his underlying meaning.

finally i never said that animals are smarter than us. i said that they are intelligent.


As for the sharks, that does suck for them.. but no one cares about them anyway.

i care about sharks, very gracefully creatures.

[HoneyImHome]

To say zoo's do a great job because they help keep some species from extinction is rediculous. These animals are becoming extinct, most of the time, because of us. Instead of us curbing our habits and "needs"(these are actually wants) we place them in cages and living areas, much smaller than what they are used to, or at least the wild version from their species, making them live lives which just isn't what they are meant for, a lot of the time for the amusement of us humans who again if it wasn't for us they wouldn't need us to save them!

First off, I didn't say they did a great job for doing this. I said that they help prevent extinction in species that are dying out. Yeah, they do, and not all are dying out because of man, although that is typically the reason. Honestly this may make me sound harsh, but as I stated earlier, we are here doing what we need and hell maybe what we want as well to survive on this planet. Sometimes it gets in the way of the animals. Think of it on a smaller level. Do you not chase off what we consider vermin, i.e. rats, spiders, roaches, or even kill them when they invade OUR space? Why? They are just trying to survive as well.

I do agree about the sharks though. I avoid going out too deep when I'm at the ocean because I respect that I'm in the territory of sharks and other sealife. (Yeah, I know they can attack in as little as 2 feet, but I can't stay that neurotic). If people take the chance to surf and dive and other activities that put them in the environment of dangerous animals, they know the risk they are taking. BUT, if it was my loved one that was killed by a shark, and I had the chance to kill the bastard, it would probably happen. Call me an animal for that. I don't care. :cool:

[TheLampIncident]

Did anybody ever stop and think that some animals probably should go extinct because they're worthless and had it coming?

[BklynCannonball]

Did anybody ever stop and think that some animals probably should go extinct because they're worthless and had it coming?

Like humans?

I read this a while ago, it's so interesting. Apparently, the ivory billed woodpecker who scientists have thought was extinct since the 70s was found in Arkansas. The average life span for an ivory billed Woodpecker is 15 years.

Fascinating.

If you're interested

http://www.nature.org/ivorybill/

didn't read it here but there seems to be lots of info on it.

[Chad]

I think humans got it coming. Don't worry. something bad will happen because we are all jerks. except for magnolia. Magnolia will be given mercy.

[BamWam]

Not all people are jerks, for example Oprah is cool.

[Zickddot]

Saying zoos are evil and unnatural is like saying something is unnatural cuz it's man-made. Obviously if our brains are telling us to do it, it's human nature.

Secondly, if zoo animals were stupid enough to get caught, they belong in there. We do it cuz we can, we are the supreme beings on earth, and we show off how stupid other animals are. When you are smarter than somebody and you flaunt it, aren't you doing the same thing?