America is not a Christian nation

[junglizm]

This is by far the most asinine ‘theory,’ out of a huge plethora of ignorant secular theories, touted by the religiously insane. To positively assert that America, a nation built upon the principles of freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, founded by atheists, agnostics and non-Christian deists, is a “Christian nation” is so utterly stupid it’s almost beyond comprehension.

What are your thoughts on this common misconception/lie?

[....]

Wouldn't the majority of Americans and other people across the world say America is a christian nation? If you answer this with yes then I believe there lies your answer, Religion is a choice, not something which is decided for you, even though it wouldn't be to the extent that some people may believe, what religion someone chooses to be is what they are, even though the majority of people these days don't fully follow the belief's of their chosen religion.

just my thoughts on the issue, I do see what you mean though.. :)

[junglizm]

But by that logic, America could also be called a "white nation" or "Caucasian nation" because Caucasians make up the majority of our citizens. However, most people would agree that this would be a silly assertion, and it certainly isn't true.

[BrIONwoshMunky]

It's all because the Christians yell, scream, and rant about their religeon. It's great PR. Under the whole "No press is bad press" theory. You don't really hear to many Agnostics, atheists, and non-christians speak out against anything. And while that doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means that the public face that the world sees is a bunch of loud mouthed baptists, methodists, and boy-touching catholics on T.V.

During the big stink over "Season's greeting" as opposed to "Merry Christmas", I never heard, on the news anyways, a group other than the ones complaining.

[....]

I think you have that around the wrong way, the majority of Americans wouldn't be christains, I myself have no beliefs in the way of religion, but it's the stereotype for the nation, and everyone claims them to be christain. America is known as a white nation because that is the stereotype for the people there, that is how it get's that reputation. If it was something else then it could easily be known as a black nation as the native people to the nation certainly weren't white. Even though this is clearly wrong, these sort of conclusions usually get made based on stereotypes rather than fact. It's like on tv, even though today there are people from different nationalities in all different countries of different sex's doing jobs not previously done by such people, when selecting people to play roles in movies and on television a person who fits the stereotype for what role, instead of the type of person who fills that role in society today.

[dustinzgirl]

The ruling class of America is Christian. What sets us apart is that you can not be legally punished for your religious beliefs, or lack thereof. I say that this is a Christian nation because the ruling majority and all the money and politics is within the white male Christian class. The rest of us are just along for the ride, we are tolerated. And yes I say we because I am a Christian but I strongly disagree with nearly all the bullshit the ruling class spouts at me about being a Christian.

[I Hate The FCC]

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
-Thomas Jefferson


"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."
-Thomas Jefferson


"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
-John Adams



"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
-John Adams



"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-James Madison

Both the writer of the Constitution (Thomas Jefferson) and the man considered the "Father of the Constitution" (James Madison) were non-Christian, yet we're still a nation founded on Christianity, right?

[dustinzgirl]

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
-Thomas Jefferson


"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies."
-Thomas Jefferson


"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
-John Adams



"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
-John Adams



"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-James Madison

Both the writer of the Constitution (Thomas Jefferson) and the man considered the "Father of the Constitution" (James Madison) were non-Christian, yet we're still a nation founded on Christianity, right?

No, but we are ruled by the Christian majority.

[I Hate The FCC]

No, but we are ruled by the Christian majority.
That does not change the fact that our country was founded on Christianity in any way, shape, or form. To say otherwise is entirely vacuous.

[junglizm]

I say that this is a Christian nation because the ruling majority and all the money and politics is within the white male Christian class.
Bullshit. We are a secular nation that happens to have a high percentage of Christians citizens; this ratio obviously overflows into political offices as well. America never has and never will be a Christian nation, no matter how much the religiously insane want it to be.

[stinkyfingers]

But by that logic, America could also be called a "white nation" or "Caucasian nation" because Caucasians make up the majority of our citizens. However, most people would agree that this would be a silly assertion, and it certainly isn't true.

this may be true. when have we had a african-american leader? what about a latino leader? asian? oh yeah it hasn't happened yet.

[Shaman Yoh]

This is by far the most asinine ‘theory,’ out of a huge plethora of ignorant secular theories, touted by the religiously insane. To positively assert that America, a nation built upon the principles of freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, founded by atheists, agnostics and non-Christian deists, is a “Christian nation” is so utterly stupid it’s almost beyond comprehension.

What are your thoughts on this common misconception/lie?
Who said this?

[BamWam]

I'm personally a member of the Scientologist religion, therefore I worship Demi Moore, Britney Spears, and Ashton Kutcher.

[Chad]

I think this country isnt anything except a good country to live in. Its an easy life.

[Woodreaux]

Jung is correct: the United States of America is not a christian nation. While it is a nation which has a lot of christians, the Founding Fathers, and the 1st Amendment made it official.
For America to be a christian nation, we would have to change our government from a representive democracy to a theocracy (a goal many christian fundamentalists shrive for). In that case it would no longer be the United States of America, but the Christian Republic of America,sort of like the Islamic Republic of Iran.
The GOP has shown a great deal of willingness to destroy our secular republic to gain the votes of millions of religious dumbasses accross America. If left unchecked, the Republican party will happily trade our freedoms to create this church-state. They bastards must be stopped. Vote, mother fuckers, vote.

[FlipTheState]

dustinzgirl:
No, but we are ruled by the Christian majority.

No, the majority of our leaders are ruled by the Christian Right. Hence, we're a de facto Christian Nation.
Didn't the last "Christian Nation" start the Crusades?... might help to understand why the rest of the world hold us in such high regards, what with national icons such as Pat Robertson always spreading the "word"....

Not an attack, just trying to point out what we look like to the rest of the world.

[BamWam]

No, the majority of our leaders are ruled by the Christian Right. Hence, we're a de facto Christian Nation.
Didn't the last "Christian Nation" start the Crusades?... might help to understand why the rest of the world hold us in such high regards, what with national icons such as Pat Robertson always spreading the "word"....

Not an attack, just trying to point out what we look like to the rest of the world.

With me myself being a Christian I think that those people like Pat Robertson is a hypocrit and those people on TV are phony.

[junglizm]

this may be true. when have we had a african-american leader? what about a latino leader? asian? oh yeah it hasn't happened yet.
I see the point you're trying to make, but you're ignoring the fact that the ethnicity, race or religion of our leaders has no bearing on what kind of nation we are. Our founders instilled power to "We the people;" every president we've had has been chosen by our people; people of all religions, races and ethnic groups. So your point is moot.

[BadEvilWrong]

The US is not a christian nation simply for one reason: We are not a theocracy. The Supreme Court, made up primarily by christians, prevent the creation of laws based on christian creed on a regular basis. Furthermore, the Supreme Court also overturns laws based upon little more than religious beliefs. If this does not make us a secular nation, I do not know what does.

[stinkyfingers]

I see the point you're trying to make, but you're ignoring the fact that the ethnicity, race or religion of our leaders has no bearing on what kind of nation we are. Our founders instilled power to "We the people;" every president we've had has been chosen by our people; people of all religions, races and ethnic groups. So your point is moot.

300 million people in this country, roughly. about 200 mil white, 35 mil latino,30 mil african-american, the rest mixed. if you put all the non-whites together and have them vote for one canidate they have no chance against the white majority. if you bring up the electorial college whites still win there too. the best that the non-white votes can hope for is to win ny and ca.

[FlipTheState]

bamwam13:
With me myself being a Christian I think that those people like Pat Robertson is a hypocrit and those people on TV are phony.


You missed my point.
You've only scratched the tip of the iceberg.

[junglizm]

300 million people in this country, roughly. about 200 mil white, 35 mil latino,30 mil african-american, the rest mixed. if you put all the non-whites together and have them vote for one canidate they have no chance against the white majority. if you bring up the electorial college whites still win there too. the best that the non-white votes can hope for is to win ny and ca.
I know this, but your entire theory relies on the assumption that a majority of our citizens will only vote for a candidate of their race. I just think that is a bit of a stretch. Not to mention that you've ignoring the question of when the last Black, Asian, female or Latino nominee even ran for presidential office.

[stinkyfingers]

good point. i cant think of a black, latino, or asian canidate. jesse jackson?

[FlipTheState]

Holy shit, man....don't even joke about it.

[Woodreaux]

If I had to choose between Jesse Jackson or Pat Robertson and moving to another country weren't an option, I'd vote for Jesse Jackson. For that matter, I'd vote for Micheal Jackson before Pat Robertson.

[FlipTheState]

If I had to choose between Pat Robertson, Jesse Jackson, and moving to another country weren't an option...

Wait...there's a link to the article about the gamer kid who swallowed pills and anti-freeze around here somewhere......


:sarcasm:

[dustinzgirl]

No, the majority of our leaders are ruled by the Christian Right. Hence, we're a de facto Christian Nation.
Didn't the last "Christian Nation" start the Crusades?... might help to understand why the rest of the world hold us in such high regards, what with national icons such as Pat Robertson always spreading the "word"....

Not an attack, just trying to point out what we look like to the rest of the world.

Thats what I was trying to say. We may have been founded on religious freedom, but seriously this nation is guided and in most cases outright ruled by the Christian white majority. If it was not, then gay marriage would not have to be decided as a law, and they would not try to destroy books (The Anarchists Guide, The Satanic Bible) the way they do.

Whether or not you all want to admit it, the hard core, right wing, Christian influence is in our laws and politics. Personally, I wish it was not, but it is. I would structure this country with a strict seperation of church and state, especially in schools.

The problem I have is that we reportedly have religious freedom, but it is controlled freedom, and that bothers me. I am a staunch believer in free will, and that is why I feel there needs to be clearly defined seperation between religious beliefs, faiths, and government.

If you deny that this country is ran and in some cases overrun by the Christian Majority, you have your eyes closed to a serious problem in this country.

First off, I think that if the prez wants to send out merry christmass cards, then that should be fine. Unfortunatly there is this HUGE drift between acceptence and political correctness. If everyone would stop being so fucking worried about political correctness and try to accept more, then I think the country would be a better place. I don't give a fuck what who worships, that is between them and thier god, I have my own God and my own religion.

What I absolutely despise is that the religious right forces things down the throats of people without hearing anything other than thier own idiotic rambling. Kinda like congress and the senate. Thats why so many of our laws are so fucked up. Why cant they sell hard liquor on Sunday? I go to church on Wed. so what does that matter to anyone but me and mine? Why can't my kids do a book report on the satanic bible? It doesnt seem overly perverse or sexual or horrid, so whats the big deal? Why can't I marry Anjelina Jolie? Who the fuck will it hurt besides me? Why can't that homosexual male practice his lifestyle without being subjected to public ridicule and in some states charged with lewd conduct??????

We are ruled by the Christian majority, whether you agree to it or like it or not, it is still the truth.

And it will be a long fucking time before anyone in this nation has true religious freedom. Especially the Muslims, which makes me very, very sad. I think the Muslim religion is a beautiful faith with some very bad rulers, but the common Muslim is not a bad person, they are just like most of us. They want to raise thier family and be free from persecution.

PS: Fuck Jesse Jackson. He only respects his own and not others. I'd vote for Michael Jackson because he is neither white nor black, and at least I can understand what that fuck is saying.

PS:: And just for laughs: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/09/12/words_matter/

Biblical references were firmly planted at the beginning and end of the speech. Early on, Bush spoke of "hills to climb" and seeing "the valley below," an allusion to Israel's escape from slavery and Moses' vision of the Promised Land, as described in Deuteronomy 34. Given the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s famous use of the same passage ("I've been to the mountaintop"), Bush thus associated himself with both King and Moses, characterizing his presidency not just as a struggle for freedom, but a religious mission with risks of martyrdom.

[FlipTheState]

<holding hand above eyes and looking into the distance...>

There she goes, ladies! DG's reached her cruising altitude of 30,000 and will continue to climb! :)

Go get 'em!!

[Chad]

If this country IS not a christian country, can someone please explain "the In god we trust" on all of our currency?

:)

[junglizm]

If this country IS not a christian country, can someone please explain "the In god we trust" on all of our currency?

:)
"In God we Trust" did not appear on coins until 1864, a time when congress was controlled by and sympathetic to the the Religious Right right of the time, in violation of the letter and spirit of the First Amendment. The references did not appear on paper money until 1955, during the hysteria over communism; separation of church and state became a victim of the cold war due to anti-communist and anti-atheist propaganda. Again, in violation of the First Amendment.

I hardly see how the presence of that "motto" on our money makes us a Christian nation though. :rolleyes:

Edit: Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust)

[Chad]

You ruined my Chi(sp?)

[dustinzgirl]

If this country IS not a christian country, can someone please explain "the In god we trust" on all of our currency?

:)


I think we should print

"The Root of All Evil" on all of our currency.

[HoneyImHome]

Jung, is this an argument over semantics? Would you be upset if someone said that America was predominantly Christian?

[junglizm]

Jung, is this an argument over semantics? Would you be upset if someone said that America was predominantly Christian?
I guess you could say it's semantics. I think this best answers your question though:
Bullshit. We are a secular nation that happens to have a high percentage of Christians citizens; this ratio obviously overflows into political offices as well. America never has and never will be a Christian nation, no matter how much the religiously insane want it to be.

[HoneyImHome]

I see your point. To put it in my own words for clarity (tell me if I'm wrong), you don't like being categorized as a Christian nation as the entire nation is made up of other religions as well as those who choose no religion - nor does the government enforce it. To state the nation is Christian would be like saying the nation itself is a theocracy. (as someone mentioned already).

I'd agree with that argument.

[Comfy]

Eh, a lot of trouble would have been saved if you defined "Christian Nation" in your original post, jung. You can't have a (worthwhile) discussion if everyone's not on the same page in terms of "semantics."

[HoneyImHome]

I think he explained it - as he quoted in his response to me. Others took the opportunity to speak a little "off tangent" on side issues is all. Which happens all the time anyway.

I just wanted to clarify where he was coming from for my own understanding.

[Chad]

I think america is predominatly christian..I just dont like hypocrits....

The hypocrits who say they believe in god but willingly partake in what christians consider sinful.....

they will die a miserable death like myself.

[IBaneZ4544]

I'm not even going to read the other posts, but listen

AMERICA IS %100 NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION, and if you think it is, die.

But honestly, how can most of you people go through this religion bullshit? I can't stand it. Im a strong Atheist, because almost everything that I've researched/read, I thought was total bullshit. If we had a "God", we all know he has the power to do anything, and stop anything he can, right? Why didn't "God" stop the tsunami in the east? Why would he let all of those people die? That doesn't make sence. A "God" so cruel, that doesn't even make all things peaceful. If there was a so called "God", the world would be a %100 non-violent place.:mad:

[FlipTheState]

I'm not even going to read the other posts, but listen

AMERICA IS %100 NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION, and if you think it is, die.

But honestly, how can most of you people go through this religion bullshit? I can't stand it. Im a strong Atheist, because almost everything that I've researched/read, I thought was total bullshit. If we had a "God", we all know he has the power to do anything, and stop anything he can, right? Why didn't "God" stop the tsunami in the east? Why would he let all of those people die? That doesn't make sence. A "God" so cruel, that doesn't even make all things peaceful. If there was a so called "God", the world would be a %100 non-violent place.:mad:


Way to show the eWorld that you don't bother to figure out WTF you're talking about before you chime in with your overbloated .02 cents. Maybe next time you should read the thread first.
You sound more bitter than atheistic...just an observation.
The thread wasn't arguing whether or not God exists. See point #1.

[IBaneZ4544]

sorry I do know what I'm talking about, I'm a pretty cold-hearted person when it comes to religion talk, I really dont give a shit what anyone else says, if they dont agree with me, I stop talking about it :)

[BamWam]

I'm not even going to read the other posts, but listen

AMERICA IS %100 NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION, and if you think it is, die.

But honestly, how can most of you people go through this religion bullshit? I can't stand it. Im a strong Atheist, because almost everything that I've researched/read, I thought was total bullshit. If we had a "God", we all know he has the power to do anything, and stop anything he can, right? Why didn't "God" stop the tsunami in the east? Why would he let all of those people die? That doesn't make sence. A "God" so cruel, that doesn't even make all things peaceful. If there was a so called "God", the world would be a %100 non-violent place.:mad:
It is not wise to post if you don't know what the people are talking about that posted before you. Next time read before what you write and don't just randomly tell people to die if they disagree with you.

[FlipTheState]

sorry I do know what I'm talking about, I'm a pretty cold-hearted person when it comes to religion talk, I really dont give a shit what anyone else says, if they dont agree with me, I stop talking about it :)

Roger that! :thumbsdn:

[IBaneZ4544]

I dont really care what anyone else thinks, I was just making a statement. I think that if you dont roll my way, I think you should die :arazz:

[BamWam]

I dont really care what anyone else thinks, I was just making a statement. I think that if you dont roll my way, I think you should die :arazz:
You should die biotch!
Just because we disagree with us you think we should die? Nice, you just passed the first grade with those insults.
one word = n00b
(but so am I)
I think that even though we are supposed to have freedom of religion, we are definetly influenced by the Christian ways.

[junglizm]

I know it's a very hard concept to grasp, but could you guys possibly stay on topic?

[IBaneZ4544]

You should die biotch!
Just because we disagree with us you think we should die? Nice, you just passed the first grade with those insults.
one word = n00b
(but so am I)
I think that even though we are supposed to have freedom of religion, we are definetly influenced by the Christian ways.

It wasn't really an insult, I was just saying. But, Most of America is influenced by Christianity, I mean we do have "In God We Trust" on our currency and "One Nation, Under God" in our pledge of allegiance(sp?). I personally think that those shouldn't be on or currency and pledge of allegiance, but there is a freedom of religion, so can't do much about that. But, who cares? I'm just a 14 year old kid that thinks religion is bullshit, so it really doesn't matter what I think :cool:

[Zickddot]

I dont really care what anyone else thinks, I was just making a statement. I think that if you dont roll my way, I think you should die :arazz:

if you didnt care, youd shut up the first time u told us, or even not tell us in the first place.

not only that, but youve contradicted yourself with your second sentence. your only proving that if they think something else they should die. if u really didnt care, you wouldnt wish anything upon them.


I'd have to agree with Jung, the only thing I can think of as being even run by Christian officials is GWB, and he's not a significant factor in this little liberal vs conservative battle. or atleast he shouldnt be, both liberals and conservatives are idiots, they keep on trying to impose what they think is right, and try to rule the country.

liberals= stupid hippies
conservatives= stupid ceo's

[Janglenut]

The American world we live in today is based upon Christian values. The Constitution, despite those random quotes that were thrown together by an idiot, was written based on Christian Values.

Like it or not, whether or not we have a Christian majority, the United States of America is a Christian nation.

[junglizm]

The Constitution, despite those random quotes that were thrown together by an idiot, was written based on Christian Values.

No it wasn't, most of our founders weren't even Christian. Furthermore, the constitution makes no mention of God. None. Whoever taught you that garbage was lying to you.

[Janglenut]

No it wasn't, most of our founders weren't even Christian. Furthermore, the constitution makes no mention of God. None. Whoever taught you that garbage was lying to you.

Read the constitution. The founders don't have to be christian, don't have to mention god, for it to be based on Christian values. The Bill of Rights had nothing but Christian values in it.

I am not taking this from some goon teachers mouth, I am taking it from my own mind. I was born a Christian, not so sure I am anymore, but the nation is based upon it's values.

[BrIONwoshMunky]

The values of right and wrong are not Christian alone.

[Janglenut]

The values of right and wrong are not Christian alone.


Read deeper than that my friend.

[junglizm]

Read the constitution. The founders don't have to be christian, don't have to mention god, for it to be based on Christian values. The Bill of Rights had nothing but Christian values in it.

I am not taking this from some goon teachers mouth, I am taking it from my own mind. I was born a Christian, not so sure I am anymore, but the nation is based upon it's values.
Well then you're making an ignorant assumption, and one huge self-serving stretch of a rationalization. Just because some of the founding values coincide with Christian values doesn't meant they're "based on Christian values." That's an asinine notion if I've ever heard one!

If our founders intended to establish the U.S. as a "Christian Nation" in any constitutional, legal, or political sense, they neglected to mention it in the document from which our federal government derives its authority. (i.e., the Constitution) The end. Period. You can stop your ridiculous rationalizations now.

I swear, some Christians are so narrow minded and self-righteous, they want to claim an influence in any and everything moral or good. Please save your circular logic for some other thread.
The Bill of Rights had nothing but Christian values in it.The Bill of Rights does not define our country as a secular or Christian nation, the constitution does that. (lol) The Bill of Rights defines common sense social values, and assigns rights for our citizens - some of those rights do agree with Christian values, but that doesn't mean they're based upon Christian doctrine. Especially not when you look at those who drafted and signed the document. Furthermore, the Bill of Rights outlines the protection of religious liberty as our first freedom. It would've been anticlimactic to draft a religiously fueled document, and then declare religious liberty for all. :rolleyes:

I was born a Christian, not so sure I am anymore, but the nation is based upon it's values.

This is a common misconception and/or out right lie, perpetuated by people either looking to paint a picture of America skewed towards their religious inclination, or simply those ignorant of founding era history.

Our government and all its laws are based upon the Constitution, an unequivocally secular document. The founders, and architects of the Constitution, deliberately omitted any mention of god in order to assign supreme governmental power to 'We the People.' Their idea was diametrically opposed to the doctrine of the "divine right of kings," which for centuries had enabled monarchs to wield absolute power in the name of (a Christian) god.

Furthermore, there isn’t a single mention of God in the Constitution; there is however, one mention of ‘our creator.’ The liars like to stretch that into an assumption that ‘our creator,’ despite a lack of contextual evidence, is a reference to the Judeo-Christian ‘God.’ With the fact that a majority of our founders were non-Christian deists in mind, one can easily spot the fallacious nature of this assumption and/or lie.

The only other text in the constitution that even comes close to referencing a god is the line “Year of Our Lord," which is an English version of the Latin phrase "Anno Domini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AD) Nostri Iesu Christi," or AD. This dating convention was a hold-over from Europe, and has about as much religious significance to the Constitution as the fact that our days of the week, as well as several of our months, are named after Pagan and Norse gods (http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/days.html). The fact that the liars resort to citing this as "proof" of our “Christian heritage” underscores just how weak their position is.

Another proof of the secular nature of our country’s founding is the now ratified Treaty of Tripoli. This treaty contains the words, "As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion..." Granted, it is not an important document in the history of our country, and does not legally establish our government as secular; the Constitution does that. It is, however, one of many proofs of the intent of the founders.

In addition, several of our founding fathers wrote anti-Christian letters, or other literature, as most were non-Christian deists; some were also known to be, or believed to have been, atheist or agnostic. These quotes remain as proof to this day:

"The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
--George Washington

"Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
--Benjamin Franklin

"I do not find in Christianity one redeeming feature."
--Thomas Jefferson

"A just government has no need for the clergy or the church."
--President James Madison

"The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
--President Abraham Lincoln

That said, it is true that SOME of America's founders were devout Christians, it’s ambiguous for some, and others were definitely not. What their religious convictions were is largely irrelevant, however. What is relevant is the type of government they chose to establish. They established a wholly secular one.

Also of note are the many writing of our founders on the separation of church and state, which show intent to not only keep religious doctrine and dogma out of governmental policies, but prevent government sanctioned religions. This is evidenced in Jefferson's Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (http://members.tripod.com/%7Ecandst/tnppage/statute.htm), Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments (http://members.tripod.com/%7Ecandst/tnppage/memorial.htm) and Benjamin F. Underwood's The Practical Separation of Church and State (http://members.tripod.com/%7Ecandst/tnppage/uwood.htm), to name a few.

[Elite Hunting]

Look, everyone has made various points here. Can't we all just get along? Can't we just say we're a "Christian-Friendly" nation and call it a day?

We're at least Christian-influenced, otherwise Christmas wouldn't the only nationally-recognized federal holiday we have. There's no separation of church and state on December 25th each year.

And, for that matter, and off the subject a little I realize, but Christians are also the reason why Bush got nominated this second term. On a number of state ballots, the issue of gay marriage was voted on. Being that hardcore, conservative Christians JUST FREAK about the idea of homosexuality, it was an issue that brought more people to the polls. And, hey, while you're there, why not vote for the people who supposedly share your right-wing ideology, the Republicans?

So, even though we're not an official Christian nation/theocracy or whatever, the people in power or who want power know where their bread is buttered. By the fanatical Christian right. And by corporate America, but that's another argument.

[Zickddot]

Read the constitution. The founders don't have to be christian, don't have to mention god, for it to be based on Christian values. The Bill of Rights had nothing but Christian values in it.

I am not taking this from some goon teachers mouth, I am taking it from my own mind. I was born a Christian, not so sure I am anymore, but the nation is based upon it's values.


What if, just maybe, Christianity was based off of what people believed people should be like. So people kinda think alike right? WHAT IF! they thought of the same things, because it seemed like the right laws to apply. I mean really, I think nobody wants to be killed, stolen from, or (something about a donkey).:horse:

[FlipTheState]

Ohhhhhhhh how I LOVE adding fuel to the fire!!


Jung: you know I love you (and agree with you) but I love to stir it up even more!
Found this on another forum and I thought it VERY apropos.

I'm not supporting the idea that America is a Christian nation...but the words "Founding Fathers" started flying around...and...well...I just love irony.

One Nation, Under God (http://www.interviewwithgod.com/patriotic/highband.htm)

[gurlgonewild]

when it comes to addressing the nation politically the term "christian, christianity" is over used in hopes of gaining the attention of the largest common denominator. considering about 85% of the nation is made up of some form or another, mainly protestants and roman catholics, it is a temptation too hard to resist. the usa is not ran by religion and if so, i've heard a more typical comment that its run by the "jewish, jews" from most foreigners both residing here and abroad...pointing to the fact this country is ran by big business for big business. neither is a popular view within the usa, perhaps because it hints at a little bit of the truth and continues to make us look like we haven't progressed much further since humans began to exist. tad embarressing, i'd say.

regression (sorry)!
historically the most passionate, ardent loyalists are those who identify with others through their religious beliefs. in the past this has led to the bloodiest of wars, fought for people, who were simply using them to do their bidding by using religion as a way to gain mass control and power over them. not much has changed either here or around the world. with so many differences among us, it would be difficult to rally the masses today (if not with religion). the only thing that comes close to being a religion today or therefore combining our collective interests but not openly in public, because its viewed negatively, is money. if you think about it, not only do the politicians in this country push the religious agenda onto their unsuspecting public here but they do so also- abroad, linking us to the most powerful and popular christian europeans. this is not in error. to denounce our commonality would be a death sentence.

directly, our country is not a christian nation, or religiously ruled. however many of the ways in which gov't is overbearing, is certainly due to socially popular law-making rather than the founders original intention. how does a much more religious europe manage to rule rather liberally by allowing prostitution, abortions, gay marriages and many other such things. the usa is either extremely prude or politicians are still slapping the religious label
onto anything they want and getting it because we're just fuckin, silly assholes. or could it be the far better educational system of europe?

[screwy]

GGW? Hell yeah.