Abortion - This should start a great rant....

[jamesp]

Okay, here's the deal, we had to do a debate on abortion in school a while back, and well, passions got re-inflamed so I decided to post the argument in here and see what gets kicked up....


What do you guys think? Should abortion be illegalized or is it fine as is?

Personally I think it is terrible, and should be quite illegal, if not just because the artificial creation of life (cloning) is illegal, so should the artificial destruction of life be illegal. I mean come on, aren't people murdering these poor children?

[tama_drumz_76]

Fucking abortion!

Here's my views, if you don't want the fucking waste of money, kill it and get rid of it. I do believe there is a point that it's too late to abort, where it can hurt the woman to do it, but if so, then have the birth... Then put the little bastard in a god damn dumpster! Problem friggin' solved.

I hate children, if I had gotten my woman pregnant and we couldn't afford the abortion, I would go up there with a Xacto and a scissor myself and cut that fetus out myself. Or... dumpster it.

[jamesp]

Fucking abortion!

Here's my views, if you don't want the fucking waste of money, kill it and get rid of it. I do believe there is a point that it's too late to abort, where it can hurt the woman to do it, but if so, then have the birth... Then put the little bastard in a god damn dumpster! Problem friggin' solved.

I hate children, if I had gotten my woman pregnant and we couldn't afford the abortion, I would go up there with a Xacto and a scissor myself and cut that fetus out myself. Or... dumpster it.

you have got to be the most retarded piece of shit I have ever heard from, do the world a favor and go shoot yourself. :gun:

Thanks for your opinion!

[Unforgiven]

I'll have to agree with jamesp's position of abortion...

except in a few cases... rape, or where a pregnancy can threaten the woman's life.

[GottaHurt]

It should be legal, otherwise we're back to the dark ages.We the taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill though.

[jamesp]

It should be legal, otherwise we're back to the dark ages.We the taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill though.

If girls can go out get, pregnant, and then just erase their mistake, don't you think this is kind of promoting irresponsibility? Don't get me wrong, rape, and life threatining situations are different, but ignorant teenagers getting pregnant, and getting unpregnant is rediculous, that child has to pay the price for their stupidity.

[tama_drumz_76]

That's just my opinion. I really do not like children. Maybe I'm selfish, but I want to live my life, not raise them and waste my money for them. If I actually wanted kids and tried to have them it's a different story, but if it was an accident, say birth control failed, sorry but I'm aborting. I was exaggerating a little, because being at WTF.com, I figured it would a bit funny considering it's ranting and raving.

Oh yeah, also I wouldn't want my woman being fat and ugly... I would have to leave her on principal. Stretched cunt? Stretch Marks? I'll have none of that, she has to keep herself beautiful, or boot. Yeah, I'm a dick, but she knows how it is with me.

[GottaHurt]

If girls can go out get, pregnant, and then just erase their mistake, don't you think this is kind of promoting irresponsibility? Don't get me wrong, rape, and life threatining situations are different, but ignorant teenagers getting pregnant, and getting unpregnant is rediculous, that child has to pay the price for their stupidity.


Personally I'm against abortion, but I'm Pro Choice. Doesn't make sense on the surface, but I look at the alternatives for women, and also, I'm not the one (as a male) who has to carry the child to term. So who am I, as a male, to tell a woman that she has no say so in regard to her body? This is one of the toughest social issues our country is constantly faced with.

[tama_drumz_76]

A lot of people don't feel they're responsible enough to raise a child, especially if they're only a teenager, if this is the case, I see no reason why the girl shouldn't be able to choose to abort the child. Especially if she was going to get no help from the father, or don't know who the father is. I mean they're still going to carry the emotional stress and their pointed with 3 options... Abortion, adoption, or keeping it. Some not being able to do it yet, too young, too much school, it can be tough. It's not always the girls fault especially... Guys can be irresponsible... we know that don't we.

Personally I practice very safe sex, because I do not want to have to abort or have to deal with a child. And have been very succesful thus far, even after having mucho grande amounts of sex, so I'm glad I don't have to do anything about it at all... It's a tough decision to make for many, but I'm fairly heartless, so abortion works for me long as the woman is ok with it.

Population control should be put into effect anyway, there's too many damn people in this world.

[jamesp]

A lot of people don't feel they're responsible enough to raise a child, especially if they're only a teenager, if this is the case, I see no reason why the girl shouldn't be able to choose to abort the child. Especially if she was going to get no help from the father, or don't know who the father is. I mean they're still going to carry the emotional stress and their pointed with 3 options... Abortion, adoption, or keeping it. Some not being able to do it yet, too young, too much school, it can be tough. It's not always the girls fault especially... Guys can be irresponsible... we know that don't we.

Personally I practice very safe sex, because I do not want to have to abort or have to deal with a child. And have been very succesful thus far, even after having mucho grande amounts of sex, so I'm glad I don't have to do anything about it at all... It's a tough decision to make for many, but I'm fairly heartless, so abortion works for me long as the woman is ok with it.

Population control should be put into effect anyway, there's too many damn people in this world.

Because if there is enough stupidity, bad luck, or just plain irresponsibilty to get pregnant, then they should carry that damn kid, and if they think they cant raise it, adoption.

[_Kitana_]

im pro choice

for a couple of reasons

if you get raped... do you want to carry your rapiest baby....

if carry that child is a risk to your own health

or if its going to come up mentally challange

in any other case if your fucking around and you get pregent then its your fault

[GottaHurt]

Because if there is enough stupidity, bad luck, or just plain irresponsibilty to get pregnant, then they should carry that damn kid, and if they think they cant raise it, adoption.

I agree with your anger on the subject, but in the long run, we the taxpayer foot the bill.

I think that women/girls under the age of 18 who become pregnant, should be the responsibilty of their parents. In other words, the parents of said pregnant woman/girl should foot the bill, there should be no government subsidy for health care,welfare, food stamps or WIC. Maybe then, parents would wake up and teach their kids responsibility, instead of passing the buck onto the taxpayer.

I'm tired of seeing 15 y/o girls at the supermarket buying steaks for their punk ass boyfriends, and talking on their cell phone.If you need welfare, then you can't afford a cell phone.

Accountability.

[jamesp]

I agree with your anger on the subject, but in the long run, we the taxpayer foot the bill.

I think that women/girls under the age of 18 who become pregnant, should be the responsibilty of their parents. In other words, the parents of said pregnant woman/girl should foot the bill, there should be no government subsidy for health care,welfare, food stamps or WIC. Maybe then, parents would wake up and teach their kids responsibility, instead of passing the buck onto the taxpayer.

I'm tired of seeing 15 y/o girls at the supermarket buying steaks for their punk ass boyfriends, and talking on their cell phone.If you need welfare, then you can't afford a cell phone.

Accountability.

Thank You! Oh God thank you.

[_Kitana_]

I agree with your anger on the subject, but in the long run, we the taxpayer foot the bill.

I think that women/girls under the age of 18 who become pregnant, should be the responsibilty of their parents. In other words, the parents of said pregnant woman/girl should foot the bill, there should be no government subsidy for health care,welfare, food stamps or WIC. Maybe then, parents would wake up and teach their kids responsibility, instead of passing the buck onto the taxpayer.

I'm tired of seeing 15 y/o girls at the supermarket buying steaks for their punk ass boyfriends, and talking on their cell phone.If you need welfare, then you can't afford a cell phone.

Accountability.

HELL YEAH!

thats what i am fucking talking about... and those girls should get no help to go to fucking college either... here i sit busting my ass... why hand them a free education when they are too stupid.. to use a condom or go on birthcontrol....

fuck that...

starve... go out and hunt...

I hate people like that

welfare was put into check in the 30's for people who where in their 50s and so and could not find a Job... not for those to lazy to work...

[yowatupdogg]

i also have to agree jamesp he is right in what he says

also abortion is harmful to the woman it cause brest cancer and all this bad shit





the french suck





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pain can be such a horrible thing

[Fl!ck]

I have no idea if i think it should be legal or not becuase, It's hard making the decision the have an abortion but if u do have one u could live to regret it but, if you gave birth and then couldn't give it away becoz u gorwn attached to it then you would be in a whole lot of other shit if you couldnt handle a baby

[Bitch]

Personally I'm against abortion, but I'm Pro Choice. Doesn't make sense on the surface, but I look at the alternatives for women, and also, I'm not the one (as a male) who has to carry the child to term. So who am I, as a male, to tell a woman that she has no say so in regard to her body? This is one of the toughest social issues our country is constantly faced with.

Actually that makes perfect sense. I'm pro-choice but I'm against abortion. In my case anyhow. If I were to get pregnant and not want a child of my own, I'd put it up for adoption. There are plenty of people out there that do want a child and can't have one of their own. Why abort something that could have a wonderful life with someone else? If I don't want ot spend the money, someone else will take on that responsibility. Too many people are so afraid of adoption. Why?! It's a great way to "get rid" of the baby and it's responcibilities while at the same time giving the baby a chance to live and helping to make another person very happy.

I'm also pro-choice cause I feel it's not my business to tell others what to believe. It's like telling someone that because I'm christian their religion should be christianity as well or they are worthless. It's not for me to say what others are to believe. If they believe it is not killing a life to be then that's their belief. I dont' condone in anyway using abortion as a form of birth control cause abortion itself is bad for the body as well. Sometimes, the person getting the abortion can no longer have children just because something went wrong with the abortion opporation. Morally it's just wrong too, but again it's not my place to tell someone what to do with their body. Unless of course the option they choose would kill them...then I'd voice my opinion and strongly at that!

I wouldn't choose abortion it like I said. My only choices would be keep it or put it up for adoption. I was adopted and turned out just fine! Not all adoptions work out as well as myself, but it's a chance for a life at all if not a better life anyhow.

So to answer the original question posted, I think it should be legal. Besides, those that do chose abortion are greatly helping the over-population of people and less tress and animals have to be killed for us.

[Bitch]

I have no idea if i think it should be legal or not becuase, It's hard making the decision the have an abortion but if u do have one u could live to regret it but, if you gave birth and then couldn't give it away becoz u gorwn attached to it then you would be in a whole lot of other shit if you couldnt handle a baby

I'd get attached too but wouldn't you be happier knowing you are giving your baby a better chance at a good life by giving it to a family that could handle the responcibilities? would that help you give it to another loving couple, knowing that if you kept it and couldn't handle it you'd be starving your own baby of a possible better lifestyle? These days you can choose the adoptive parents yourself and even have an agreement to stay in touch if desired.

[Skorch]

I seem to recall an abortion debate here a while ago. I stated my stance in that thread fairly clearly I think, but I'm not sure where it is. If I can find it I'll repost it, but if not then I guess I can just restate my position.

[Skorch]

Well I found it, so you can find mine and other's opinions here: http://forums.wtf.com/showthread.php?t=303&page=2

more on that though, I feel like the Pro Life, Pro Choice debate is a little skewed, because in reality isn't everyone Pro Life and Pro Choice. It's just differences of opinion on where the life begins and where the choices should end. The terms are just there because the extremists on either sides are trying to skew the issues to make their positions look most appealing and the other side's look more unreasonable.

[bunnyobtuse]

I'd hate to break it to you, but being pro-choice or pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with telling people what they should believe.

And it shouldn't matter whether or not you hate children, because not only are they children but they are living, breathing creatures. They, like everything else on this planet, deserve the chance to life.

[The_DEA]

I'd hate to break it to you, but being pro-choice or pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with telling people what they should believe.

And it shouldn't matter whether or not you hate children, because not only are they children but they are living, breathing creatures. They, like everything else on this planet, deserve the chance to life.that was so dumb im not givein you the pleasure of being flamed

[DepressedLove]

The choice should be that of the woman. To all you men out there who are anti-abortion: Who are you to say anything about abortion? It's a woman's body and women have to deal with it. You never have to deal with any of it in your life and how would you know what it feels like to have something growing inside you that you can't take care of? I understand if you're the father and you want to keep the child, then it should be a mutual decision, unless you leave her or are planning on it.
Anyways, it's a womans body, she should be able to have control over it. There are some circumstances where I think abortion is not ok. For instance, if someone uses it as a form of birth control because they're too lazy to get pills or condoms then they should have to deal with the pregnancy. But on the flipside what happens when they're teenagers and it was a mistake? Could you live with a child that you knew was a mistake for the rest of your life? I don't think I'd be able to. And what if you can't take care of the child? Adoption is a good option, but if you're between 11-15 your body isn't ready to have a child. That is too young to have to go through the pain and hardships of pregnancy. Adoption also doesn't always work. A child could stay in the system and in foster care for their entire life. Would you want to give away a child knowing that there could be a chance that they would never find a family or that they could be beaten or the chance that they'd become homeless? I'd rather kill myself than be responsible for that.

Ok, so I have views on abortion that a lot of people don't like. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that but in short I think abortion is a form of choice that a only a woman can make and only women (and prospective fathers) can have a say in. It's not the choice of taxpayers because what happens if one day it happens to your daughter and suddenly abortion is illegal because you voted against it and didn't want to put any money into it? Would you really want your daughter having a child at the age or 13 or 14? It would be your responsibility as a good parent to help care for both the baby and your child. No one wants to be faced with these responsibilities but that's too damn bad. People are faced with these choices every day and it's not your business to tell them they can't choose against it.

Reasons for abortion:
1) Rape
2) Teenager
3) Medical complications
4) Unable to care for the child

I don't want to go into anymore because I have to go back to work. I'm done with you anti-abortion shitheads.

[magnolia]

I believe that once a child is concieved that it is a living human being and should not be killed. Who are we to play God? If you don't want the child, don't put it in a dumpster, drop it off at a hospital, they'll take care of it and it will be adopted. There are so many loving couples who would love to adopt a child. Don't kill it, give it life.

[voiceofreason]

That's just my opinion. I really do not like children. Maybe I'm selfish, but I want to live my life, not raise them and waste my money for them. If I actually wanted kids and tried to have them it's a different story, but if it was an accident, say birth control failed, sorry but I'm aborting. I was exaggerating a little, because being at WTF.com, I figured it would a bit funny considering it's ranting and raving.

Oh yeah, also I wouldn't want my woman being fat and ugly... I would have to leave her on principal. Stretched cunt? Stretch Marks? I'll have none of that, she has to keep herself beautiful, or boot. Yeah, I'm a dick, but she knows how it is with me.
You are the shining example of why retro-active abortion should be legaized... You are king of the asswipes...

[Black Flame]

i agree with those who said they would want to have the child if they were to get pregnant. personally i couldn't bare the thought of killing my child, or any child for that matter. those fucks who complain about how "annoying" children are, are obviously too weak minded to be able to deal with it. learn patience! and responsibility. not just for children (who are EVERYWHERE around the world so you can't avoid them) but for your own sanity in everyday life. and hell, we were all kids once!
i don't think abortions should be illegalized at all. as mentioned copius times before, women have the right and freedom to their bodies. for any other woman who is brave enough to be able to get an abortion, it is a smart decision for whatever reason they decide to do it. this world is overpopulated as it is, so if you know you're not going to want the child, it's best to get rid of it before it enters this mad fucking world.
i don't quite agree with cutting off welfare for teen mothers. people make mistakes and a lot of times they don't have the money to fix those mistakes (which is not to say the child is a terrible mistake, i'm sure most of the time the mother loves it dearly, or at least grows to love it and hell, the kid could end up doin alright for him/herself).
i suppose that's all i have to say.

[Infected_enigma]

Personally I think it is terrible, and should be quite illegal, if not just because the artificial creation of life (cloning) is illegal, so should the artificial destruction of life be illegal. I mean come on, aren't people murdering these poor children?

k how about this, Ur a woman and u were raped and u got pregnet, this child in the child of you and sum asshole you don't know and also ur porr cuz u have sum minium wage job and Mcdonalds so ur not gonna be able to afford the baby. Or here's another one: Lets say ur a woman again and u have sex and the condom broke, and u realize that the guy who u had sex with is an asshole (the type who shouldn't even be allowed to breed which some people shouldn't have that right) and this guy is abusive, and if u left there would b no possible way to support the child on your own. So then if you let this kid grow up because of the father they'd b some little fucked up kid who would be a drian on this society. And another one: Lets say ur again a woman and ur 15 and ur stupid and u you have unprotected sex with ur boyfriend and then he dumped you, and whadda know you get pregnet (sp). You'd have to drop out of school to take care of the child. Don't u think you'd want an abortion in those conditions?

Also with the problem of over population in this world I would encourage abortion and instead adopt a kid who is already in this world and help care for the people already in this world rather then create more.

In somecases i think abortion should be force. Like on all these stupid trailor trash bitches with sum stupid asshole who dropped outta school in 9th grade and has some crummy job. And then they go out and do drugs and drink alcohol and then that baby is gonna get really fucked up.

I believe abortion is fine the way it is and I hope stupid fuck pro-lifers like Bush get outta office so it'll stay that way

[chubz]

abortin is jack shit and the devil

along with democrats

[morelos]

everyone is connected to the issue of abortion. men may not be DIRECTLY connected to ONE ABORTION IN PARTICULAR, but men are part of society and fetuses which are or are not carried to term for whatever reason are ALSO part of society. thus, we are all interconnected.

i don't feel it's my place to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body, but i do have a VERY strong belief about the time when a developing fetus becomes something OTHER than her own body.

if i cut off my hand, it dies. i'm not a starfish -- i won't grow another hand and my hand won't grow another me. it just dies.

likewise, a fetus that's brewing will DIE if removed too prematurely. as far as i see it, it's NOT a separate life at any time when it would die if removed from the womb. and that should, in my opinion, ignore modern medicine; soon enough we'll have artificial uteri in which an egg can be fertilized and a baby grown to term, with no mother involved except for the egg.

so, it's my opinion that as long as a woman could naturally miscarry (as opposed to giving a still birth), abortion should be allowed.

besides, do you REALLY want to force people to raise kids they can't take care of or don't want? just what we need -- more gang members.

and no, it's NOT reasonable to try to tell people not to have sex. people have sex. make it illegal and they still have sex.

[voiceofreason]

People can argue the point all day long, but the bottom line is, women are in control on this issue, always have been. Long ago they used herbs and plants to end pregnancies, today it's RU486. It's the way it is...

[twofivekidd9]

Pro-choice all the way. It's a free fuckin country and it would take our rights away to not be able to make that choice.

[JetoSTM]

I believe that abortion should be illegal for many reasons. The first being murder is illegal and killin a fetus is exactly like murder so why shouldnt that be illegal? Not to mention you should give it up for adoption, so many wonderful people want kids who can't have them. Why not give them the chance to raise a family? Besides If God wants you to have a kid your going to have a kid and thats that!

[Invalid]

murder happens in war? oh but that's different right?
aborting a baby isn't playing god because it's murder right? that would be saying that every serial killer or soldier is playing "god" by killing people.

I'm pro-choice, I may not like it but I think that women should have the choice. if your young and "stupid enough" to have a kid I don't my fucking tax dollars paying for that shit. I know that some people would still have a baby anyway but they atleast have the choice to not have it.

[voiceofreason]

Pro-choice all the way. It's a free fuckin country and it would take our rights away to not be able to make that choice.
http://forums.wtf.com/rage/icons/icon14.gif
Right, don't agree to have them take away our freedoms...

[JetoSTM]

I don't agree with war either!

[vicodincasserole]

Pro-choice all the way. It's a free fuckin country and it would take our rights away to not be able to make that choice.


:thumbsup: If you oppose abortion then dont have one. BUT, and here is one of the only things i like that Bush did, late term or partial birth abortion should not be legal. It is disgusting and evil in my opinion. I think that if that is legal than doctor assisted suicide should also be legal.

[RedOctober]

The abortion case is a way the reactionaries use stupid rhetoric to supress freedom in any country of the world. They don't give a damn about abortion, it's just a way to be opressive.
In a country like The Netherlands abortion is legal, but the publicity campains for safe sex and family planning are so succesful that we have the lowest abortion rate in the world.

[Pachyderm]

See the thing with abortion is that people (especially women) don't understand. Despite what many of you think, abortion is a freedom to which women can have the choice to be or not to be. When women protest this, they don't realize that they are protesting to take away their rights, and further expand the "women and lesser beings" idea. If a president takes away this right, it sets women back before the womens lib movement.
second, no matter if its illegal or not, woman will still feel there is no other choice but to abort this baby for various reasons. (i.e. rape, accident, retardation, mutation, among others) Women will still get the procedure done illegally possible with no anesthetics, no pain medication, and unsterilized utencils, in which case we now we have the possibility of the woman's death.
Thirdly, people may say well why not put it up for adoption, while this is plausible and understood that this is also a good substitute there are still situations at risk.
one being, if the woman in question is a child herself, she still is at high risk from the labor complications. Being so young, she has a reputation to deal with, and also it is hard to support a baby and also go through college, getting a home, and meeting other people.
second, Being pregnant can endanger your job, depending on what you're doing, and it can cost you a lot of money. Maybe not a good reason for an abortion, but I see it's point.
Anyway, Women: 1. Realize that it's your freedom to choose that is at stake. 2. You don't have to do it, and have your lives affected by it. 3. If someone other than you does it, it doesn't affect you. Men: 1. Abortion puts money into our economy and creates and sustains jobs. 2. It could be the possition you get you and your girl into. 3. It's not your body, or decision.

[Pachyderm]

I agree with you, red october.

[Pachyderm]

I believe that abortion should be illegal for many reasons. The first being murder is illegal and killin a fetus is exactly like murder so why shouldnt that be illegal? Not to mention you should give it up for adoption, so many wonderful people want kids who can't have them. Why not give them the chance to raise a family? Besides If God wants you to have a kid your going to have a kid and thats that!

The bill President bush signed on making it a double murder to kill a pregnant woman, informally known as the Lacy Peterson Law, is why there was a large march in Washington against abortion and for womens' rights. I believe it was the biggest march in history because it is that close to illegalizing the abortion rights. Second, Many children are forced to live in foster care their whole life, and never get adopted out. So while many people who can't have children adopt, there are still many others who are never adopted out. Thus resulting in no parents, and (maybe) lack of morals, values, and other important life lessons. last, if God wants me to have a child and I don't do anything to have a child, I wont have a child, lest I am some new virgin mary. Leave God out of it.

[deus_ex_machina]

my theory is if you dont want a kid then dont have sex. i personally have sex but i dont give a shit cause if we have to, then we will abort the kiddie.

[Pachyderm]

If abortion was outlawed except in the few cases of rape or the endangerment of the Woman's or childs life there would be a huge problem. What would the doctors of America do to justify these reasons and allow the abortion? First, let's say a woman finds out she's pregnant. We'll say she's a month and a half pregnant (missed period, it's not coming, okay go to the doc's to see if you're pregnant). She makes an appt. with the Gyno to check if she is eligable for abortion. But this will take a while, because it seems that there are many woman who want this opperation. So, it take, we'll say 2 weeks to get into the doctors office. (Now we're at two months)
She says to the doctor, I was raped. or I feel I am going to endanger my life if I go into labor. Doctor examines the chick but it's been 2 months since she's "been raped" and there a few signs to tell if this is true or not. Solution? none. Can't prove with in time if she has been raped (even if there are traces of sexual contact, becuase it is possible that all signs of forced entry have been healed). So the doctor say's fill out this paper work send it in await to be approved. But the problem is a bunch of other woman are doing the same exact thing. So you fill out the paper work and send it in, will it be approved in time for the abortion? I don't know, I guess some will be shit out of luck.
second senario: woman or child is endangered. We'll give them another 1 1/2 months to start. Make the appt. and in there my 2 months. Says, I think I am too young or my birth canal is not quite developed. If this person is old enough to be pregnant, chances are her hips have spread, but lets give the benefit of the doubt. Doctor does a check it seems she does have too small of a birth canal, okay, what about the possibility of a C section? Plus what's the percentage of woman with a narrow birth canal, narrow enough to endager her or the babies life? very small in the high tech world of the hostpital. lastly, how long before you can check to see if the baby is having complications in the womb. Point is, By the time it's all done with, there will be no time to get an abortion. You can outlaw abortion for "birth control" and legalize it for other circumstances. I realize some people abuse the situation, but that's how it is.

[deus_ex_machina]

you arent going to change my mind. abortion is what they want to do...i wont get fucked in their business

[magnolia]

Who are we to play god with unborn children. If you kill someone who is born it's murder, if u kill someone who isn't yet born its abotion. I don't see a difference.

[Pachyderm]

Who are we to play god with unborn children. If you kill someone who is born it's murder, if u kill someone who isn't yet born its abotion. I don't see a difference.

One is a life, and the other is recieving life from a person who doesn't want to give it to them.

[magnolia]

One is a life, and the other is recieving life from a person who doesn't want to give it to them.
But, it wouldn't be an issue if the mother hadn't gotten pregnant in the first place. If you end up with a child that you didn't want, but were irresponsible to make, have it and adopt it out. You'll never have to see it again if you don't want to. It's more humane.

[Pachyderm]

But, it wouldn't be an issue if the mother hadn't gotten pregnant in the first place. If you end up with a child that you didn't want, but were irresponsible to make, have it and adopt it out. You'll never have to see it again if you don't want to. It's more humane.

I wouldn't personally get an abortion but I am pro choice. Putting up for adoption doesn't necessarily mean it's going to a good home. It could be that it stays in a foster home till it's 18 and mentally stressed. It could go through life with out the teaching of what is important, and their life might not be as good as you imagine it.

[magnolia]

But they still don't deserve to die just cuz the mom and dad weren't careful enough.

[Child of Bodom]

But they still don't deserve to die just cuz the mom and dad weren't careful enough.


Gotta agree with mag. It should be illegal to do that anyways. I mean, It's illegal to kill people, why shouldn't it be illegal to kill unborn children? They aren't born, but aren't they humans too???

[Pachyderm]

Personally I don't think a heart beat means shit. I think when a person gains free will and free thought, then it's life starts. Look at the many vegetables out there now. I can't believe that they want to live with out their control of their body and mind. But they have a heart beat. Fetus' don't have free will and thought, so it isn't like killing another human being. A fetus does not know what it is losing or gaining, it cannot grasp the concept of life or any other concept for that matter. Remember, it is a choice, a freedom, and it should be up to woman as to whether or not they can handle the emotional and physical and economical stress of a baby.

[morelos]

isn't it ironic that all the people who hunt tend to be pro-life?

[DanGeo23]

and odd that most people that are proabortion are against capital punishment....

[morelos]

pro-abortion is a term you should save for people like me. usually, pro-choice is the most accurate. just like people called pro-gun ownership, they don't want everyone to own and use guns all the time. they want people to use them responsibly and with discretion. pro-choicers are the same way; abortion as a last resort when necessary and avoid it as much as possible.

people like me are pro-abortion. i don't give a fuck; wanna not have that baby? good for the US!

[Pachyderm]

and odd that most people that are proabortion are against capital punishment....
I'm only against capital punishment because it's the easiest (no sufferring) way out. Maybe a little contradiction...

[voiceofreason]

isn't it ironic that all the people who hunt tend to be pro-life?
Yep, it all comes down to perspective...

[Pachyderm]

Yep, it all comes down to perspective...
Maybe abortion should have more pain involved.. :sword:

[morelos]

and odd that most people that are proabortion are against capital punishment....

no.

capital punishment would be fine if we never mistakenly convicted people. i'm only against capital punishment because while you can apologize, make reparations and let someone go if you wrongly imprison them and it turns up decades later they were innocent, you cannot raise them from the dead and likewise apologize.

~ dan ~

[magnolia]

Exactly!

[vicodincasserole]

no.

capital punishment would be fine if we never mistakenly convicted people. i'm only against capital punishment because while you can apologize, make reparations and let someone go if you wrongly imprison them and it turns up decades later they were innocent, you cannot raise them from the dead and likewise apologize.

~ dan ~

i thought about that a lot and here is what i think: you either believe in the court system or you do not. I do believe in the court system and i feel that if a person is proven guilty for a crime then they are guilty. For instance OJ Simpson is an innocent man becuase he was not proven guilty. He may have killed his wife but it could not be proven... "Its not what you know, its what you can prove."

[morelos]

i thought about that a lot and here is what i think: you either believe in the court system or you do not. I do believe in the court system and i feel that if a person is proven guilty for a crime then they are guilty. For instance OJ Simpson is an innocent man becuase he was not proven guilty. He may have killed his wife but it could not be proven... "Its not what you know, its what you can prove."

i had a brief binge of 'thinking' that way too.

the problem is that 'de facto' and 'de jure' are two VERY different applications of reality.

we live in a de facto world, but we're always trying to squeeze it into one de jure.

law fails a lot of the time. just because oj wasn't pronounced guilty BY TWELVE OTHER PEOPLE doesn't mean the two people he killed aren't dead.

thus, 'de jure' is not the reality. it's not about faith in the court system, it's about how FACTS can be different from what the law SAYS.

~ dan ~

[dustinzgirl]

Well, I would just have to say that unless you are the mother or the father of the fetus, your opinion doesnt really matter. And unless you have actually had an abortion, your opinion on the morality of it is inconsequential to the actual task of abortion. Also, until we find ways to create better lives for the children and mothers in our country, I am pro-abortion.

[morelos]

well said. heh. i've been through both of the hottest topics on wtf issues forums right now.

but what do you do? 18 years old and unemployed and no education; how do you raise a child? you will never give that child a wholesome life.

[dustinzgirl]

well said. heh. i've been through both of the hottest topics on wtf issues forums right now.

but what do you do? 18 years old and unemployed and no education; how do you raise a child? you will never give that child a wholesome life.

I had my first son at 17, my daughter at 18, so age is not an excuse, but my family was always there for me, I worked and went to college. If my family had not supported me, I would not have made it. Period.

[morelos]

If my family had not supported me, I would not have made it. Period.

we had no such support.

[Pachyderm]

I agree with DG, until America has a better system for all these children, there should always be abortion.

[dustinzgirl]

we had no such support.

I am sorry.

[dustinzgirl]

I agree with DG, until America has a better system for all these children, there should always be abortion.


I know I said that, but doesn't that make everyone just want to cry? I mean, seriously, how sad is that?

[morelos]

I know I said that, but doesn't that make everyone just want to cry? I mean, seriously, how sad is that?

pretty sad. but no more sad than starving somalians or iraqis being shot dead in the streets. no more sad than AIDS running rampant in africa or violent animal abuse...

it all sucks. it's in our nature to hurt ourselves and others.

~ dan ~