Evil - Does it really exist?

[HoneyImHome]

Someone made a comment in one of the other news threads that involved a woman killing her two daughters after hearing voices, that prompted my thinking on this. They made the statement that obviously a sane person couldn't kill their children. So this made me think about all the cases that get off on insanity. That led me to think (as I have before) that if someone is not insane, then are they truly "evil"? I find it hard to believe really.

I know there are some pretty mean people, but even most of them are that way due to some need they didn't get fulfilled as children or even in adult life, whether that need be affection, love, or just support. I really don't think any completely normally functioning person could go through with the act of killing short of necessity such as self defense, or survival. I don't call acts of revenge for the death or harm of a loved one completely "sane" or rational either. I don't care how the courts define it either. I know they determine it basically by whether it was thought out and planned as opposed to spontaneous and abrupt.

It just seems that people who are driven to kill, are typically not sane (even if only temporarily). I do think there are just some "bad" people but like I said, I bet if you had those people sit down with a qualified professional it wouldn't be long before they placed some sort of diagnosis on them leaning to my point.

I also don't buy the "devil made me do it" crap either. I'm not 100% sure I believe in the devil and his powers. I don't believe demons are among us either making us do bad things. In fact if I did believe in the devil and demons, I still just don't believe they wander around picking on humans and driving them to do terrible things. I just can't.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

[JLXC]

I do believe in life after death, not universally, but I believe it exists. I also believe some people who do go into the afterlife have an inclination towards good or evil. I also believe that some of the souls, not many, stay on Earth as ghosts. So I do technically believe that an Evil soul might exists that could influence a weak mind or a vulnerable mind.

This is like lottery odds though, and most people who claim evil influence are either nuts or making up shit so they can try to feel innocent. So while I believe it's possible, I think it's extrememly rare. So "demonic possession" or angels are simply Evil or Good souls influencing this world from the beyond, but extremely rare.

[anotheruser]

One question: Would you place a sadistic person under the category "Evil" or would you place him under the category "Insane"? I'm not referring to sado-masochistic people who get sexual pleasure from hurting people.

I think some people are just inclined to hurt, to induce pain without necessarily deriving any pleasure from the act. Some of them are brilliant and get away with their plans without much difficulty. It's difficult to place them under the category "Insane". However, it also depends on what you think "Insane" is. I wouldn't call every person who likes to hurt people insane. Sure, some of them are insane, while some of them might be "motivated" to become violent by observing the violence around them. I would not call these "motivated" people insane.

[Tucker Max]

If your going to question the existance of evil, then whats it to say whos insane and whos not? Would you say O.J. Simpson is insane? I mean fuck, we all know he did it. But would you believe him to be over the edge?

I believe there is an existance of Evil...But good is pushing it, I think theres Evil and the co-existance of not evil. Although evil could exist without said "not-evil", I don't believe its opposite could exist without it...If that makes any sense.

What i'm trying to say is that there is a whole lot more evil in the world than good. even down to the smallest things. Feelings of hate are found in anyone at one point.

[HoneyImHome]

Well, that's why I said what I did about a "diagnosis". It's not necessary to define "insane" as much as "sane" here. A sane person would be one with a completely functioning rationale who hasn't suffered any form of abuse or learned behavior. I think a twisted sense of right and wrong is still formed from experiences that would typically warp a rationale.

Of course, if someone is brought up believing hurting someone for making mistakes, then their idea of right and wrong is going to be twisted on the matter. If that's what they were raised around then in all likelihood they will repeat it. That would lead to a sad life of confused morals and I believe eventually damage their own psyche when they are confronted that it is "wrong". If at that point they continue to believe it as "OK" then I think even a professional would consider this an unhealthy mental state.

Now, I know people know right from wrong. I know there are people that do bad things like steal and lie, but to harm another person especially to the point of killing them, again devoid of survival, there is just something not completely right in their brain.

It's an instinct to survive. It's engraved in our brains at birth and throughout life. To kill someone else goes against that completely.

Edit
Yuck, I believe in good and bad. As I stated above there are bad people mostly those stem from greed. As far as O.J. is concerned I think he would fall in the category I described as temporary insanity, now don't think I would say that was an excuse by any means and that's why our legal system is so quick to define the terms for it the way they do, because he definitely planned it and conspired so it wouldn't fit in the legal loophole of the term. Still, to do what he did, you have to admit isn't exactly normal and sane thinking.

Oh, and JLXC, I find that intriguing about you.

[MusicMisstress]

I think people who do bad things (outside of illness or conditioning) choose to do what they do and try to blame outside influences. "The devil made me do it" is a cop-out. When we do harm to others it's because we make wrong choices....and we make those choices on purpose.
Even things that we may see as negative forces, such as decay and death, have an order in this world. They aren't bad in themselves but we make them bad.
The forces of nature are neutral. What we do with nature and the forces of nature is a choice.
As far as "The Devil" goes....he/it is a Moslem/Christian idea. Jews and other religions don't have the concept of "devil" in their theologies.

[Easty]

Next question, is there a good? What is good? Once you define that, evil is just the counterbalance to that.

[HoneyImHome]

I think people who do bad things (outside of illness or conditioning) choose to do what they do and try to blame outside influences. "The devil made me do it" is a cop-out. When we do harm to others it's because we make wrong choices....and we make those choices on purpose.
Even things that we may see as negative forces, such as decay and death, have an order in this world. They aren't bad in themselves but we make them bad.
The forces of nature are neutral. What we do with nature and the forces of nature is a choice.
As far as "The Devil" goes....he/it is a Moslem/Christian idea. Jews and other religions don't have the concept of "devil" in their theologies.

I suppose that's my inner-Jew trying to get out then. (My grandmother and her family were Jewish.)

Now, if they'd just accept Christ as our savior, all would be right in my little world.

Oh, and about there being "good"... it's a word we use to define certain things. I believe personally there is good, as I have seen it more than once in the form of compassion and empathy. I just don't buy the "evil" part.

Let me say this, I don't think people are evil. If you look at us on the animal level and our survival instincts, nah... let's shift that to look at animals. Are there evil animals? No. They hunt and eat to survive but they don't kill for anything other than survival. So, if you take the religious aspect out of it, then why should man have the ability of holding any evil traits? So, I suppose if you want to believe in the devil and/or demons and their supposed influence over humans, then yeah... I just don't I guess...

[breakology]

Good and evil don't exist, it is simply a duality of what the mind perceives. It comes down to perspective. Anything can be considered good or evil if viewed from the right angle by a person who is able to justify the situation.

[steelasp]

I have personally felt the presence of evil spirits, and heard them talking to me, trying to coerce me into doing terrible things. Of course, I was hallucinating on salvia divinorum at the time. But it was very distinctive, and unlike any other experience I have had on salvia.

The voice promised me that I could have anything I wanted if I "let him in" and did what he told me. I did not consciously agree to this, but I felt a sort of coldness enter me, and for a few days afterwards, my thoughts were very dark, and occasionally I would be around people, and I would "hear" a voice whispering in my ear things like "Kill Them".

I ignored it, and everything returned to normal after about a week. But it scared me, and I stayed away from the salvia for a good long time after that, and have been much more careful with taking it, and how I conduct my meditations when under the influence.

Now, whether the voices I heard were part of my own consciousness, or some outside influence, I can not say for sure. But the presence, and the voice felt and sounded very alien. Even as someone who values logic and science above all else, I feel that what I experienced was the presence of a true evil spirit, something supernatural, and that my suggestible state of mind under the effects of salvia divinorum, provided a way for that spirit to communicate with me, and made me vulnerable to.... I don't know what. I wouldn't say posession, because I was always in control of my actions.... but at least that presence took a temporary ride in the "back seat" of my consciousness so to speak.

I give this warning to anyone who wishes to travel the astral plane, be it by way of mind altering substances, or meditation.... Be always aware of, and vigilant for, the existence of malevolent forces who may wish to do you harm. They exist, whether it be a natural part of the human consciousness, or something else.

[steelasp]

I fucked up and made the same post twice while trying to edit a post. Mods, please remove this one

[HoneyImHome]

The effects of mind-altering drugs/chemicals does not equate to a normal functioning mind. I definitely wouldn't call that evil either, I would merely call that hallucinations brought on by chemicals. That plays back to my theory that any sane/rational person wouldn't harm another without some sort of mental deficiency, in this case that would be the actions/thoughts of someone who is in an altered state.

[JLXC]

Evil, true Evil, seems to stem from one source, and I could argue all day about why I'm right about this one.

Selfishness.

When you are consumed by the "me" and think you're more important, more deserving, hell mo betta, than everyone else, Evil is just a step away.

Rape? Well the bitch should have just given it to me.

Murder? I'm more important.

Theft, Arson, Bad Driving, Rap videos about "the grill", it all Screams! ME!

ME! ME! ME! ME!

Anything is right, if I want to do it. Sadly, the trend of many cultures is down this path. Capitalism at heart is all about selfishness, and therefore at it's core is Evil.

Evil is simply Selfishness taken too far.

[steelasp]

The effects of mind-altering drugs/chemicals does not equate to a normal functioning mind. I definitely wouldn't call that evil either, I would merely call that hallucinations brought on by chemicals. That plays back to my theory that any sane/rational person wouldn't harm another without some sort of mental deficiency, in this case that would be the actions/thoughts of someone who is in an altered state.

Yeah, you can say "dude was trippin'" But the thing you're not taking into account is that the effects of salvia divinorum wear off in under an hour. This lasted for a week. Whatever happened to me, the salvia may have made me vulnerable to it, but if it was simply an hallucination, it would have gone away when the drug wore off.

[ZoeMonster]

Evil, true Evil, seems to stem from one source, and I could argue all day about why I'm right about this one.

Money.

When you are consumed by the "money" and think you're more important, more deserving, hell mo betta for the money, than everyone else, Evil is just a step away.

Rape? Well I payed for the bitches meal, clothes, and bought her diamonds.

Murder? I'll be damned if you get my money.

Theft, Arson, Bad Driving, Rap videos about "the grill", it all Screams! Money! MONEY! Money!

money = selfishness

I would have to agree to disagree with you on that one JL.